single vs twins please help im not trying to start a flame war
- Thread starter mplv
- Start date
Boy Dustin you would have to prove that to me, I seriously doubt that. Now I will say if run the same tune with both, especially a smaller tune I think the twins will not get as good fuel economy. Bigger tune get much better fuel economy, obviously you can't be WOT all the time.
Dustin I just read your post again and you are saying a stock turboed truck will get as good or better mileage and run faster? What the hell are you smoking??? That is total BS, love to have the chance to prove it to. It might come close on fuel economy but no way faster. I'm assuming that is a typo.
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Dustin my truck was set up about as mild as you could go with a small set of twin, it never had a race tune in it. I could have gotten it in the 11's if I had wanted to, but just ran a few bracket races with it so didn't bother. Never had anything but real street tires on it either. Small set of twin, lift pump, very minor tranny work, TC and standard stuff up front, sleeves and braces and clamps on the rear that is it. Hell I don't even ever take the tool box out of it when I raced. I left the hot street tune in it when I sold it and the guy who bought it wanted the tow tune in it because he was going to pull his big 5th wheel. Said the tow tune didn't get near the fuel economy as the hot street tune did just driving around.
Another thing how long you thing that single cab LMM's turbo is going to live running it like that? I know the twinned truck isn't working hard at all makeing the same performance. I'm not try to sell twins, hell I still have to pay Nathan for the last two sets I bought. But really you can't actually believe that statement?
But your statement that two truck set up the same and stock one would be as quick or quicker(I'm assuming you mean quick not fast) with twins is just absolutley ludicrous. Even with a stock tune in each I'd bet big money the twinned truck would be, how could it not, epecially if you had the time to spool the turbos on a stock tune???
Pat you are a great guy and I love you but at times you have cranial rectal insertion. You are coming to Phoenix with Casper to race Max'd Out in March correct? Whats say you get another of your trucks set up with whatever single you want and I'll get a twinned truck, we'll set them up the same, (not sure exactly what all that would entail, but we can work on the details, certainly same weight) and we have a little race, #2 only just so one of us can prove a point. Got to know what single you are running and what injectors and a, single stock CP. What do you say?:thumb:
One last point we'll inspect each other's tunes with efi live prior to the race. DSP switch disabled too.
One last point we'll inspect each other's tunes with efi live prior to the race. DSP switch disabled too.
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Won't have anything there that would qualify. Only taking Max'd Out and the tow truck and it's not twinned.
Just want to make sure this is in reference to compound/sequential turbocharging.
If so, I don't buy it.
Guess it's time to put facts/figures with statements. I'll work on my facts, you work on yours.
First, the obvious.
Increasing volume requires two things. Area and pressure. To increase oxygen content requires density when the other two cannot be increased further.
Explanation to follow.
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Pat you are a great guy and I love you but at times you have cranial rectal insertion. You are coming to Phoenix with Casper to race Max'd Out in March correct? Whats say you get another of your trucks set up with whatever single you want and I'll get a twinned truck, we'll set them up the same, (not sure exactly what all that would entail, but we can work on the details, certainly same weight) and we have a little race, #2 only just so one of us can prove a point. Got to know what single you are running and what injectors and a, single stock CP. What do you say?:thumb:
One last point we'll inspect each other's tunes with efi live prior to the race. DSP switch disabled too.
Yeah, I did come off as a bit harse, and I really don't mind twin guys talking about TWINS.
It's like if I would post all over the internet for years that living in Idaho sucks. Uh, wait. I live somewhere else. Uh, and I've never lived there. And lots of folk love living there.
Twin trucks were out before I started playing with different chargers, (they were out before HTT/PPE Dmax chargers) on my LiLLY. It was thought back then that a GT42 was too big for a single, that it couldn't be spooled for drag racing. Now there are some of us that think a GT45 is still too small.
Single turbo setups are still a work in progress. I believe a stock charger truck will run into the 11's this year. I really don't believe there is a free lunch with any modifications you do to your truck, and that's especially true with various methods of supercharging them. I don't think the "best" system has been found yet either.
And that opinion pisses off some folk.
So if somebody posts that there is no downside to a type of turbo-system, and that all single charger systems are inferior to any twin system, without having done the leg work to support it, that opinion will piss off some folk as well. I'm one of those.
Rave on the virtues of twins all you like, and even omit any downsides. But unless you've raced with big singles, it probably would not be best to say for certain what they are not capable of. After over 4 years of Dmax twins, the fastest Dmaxes remain those who are single stage charging, and very fast ones are very plentiful.
For the average Joe, without unlimited resources, a 2.6 class charger (HTT, PPE40) is going to be an excellent blend of cost, towing performance, mileage, simplicity, engine life, and competition purposes. It is capable of supporting ET's up to Rollbar Tech (11.49), and built engine territory.
Another point to ponder.
What is faster, a OEM/3.0 twin kit, or a stock charger? Twin.
What is faster, a OEM/3.0 twin kit, or a 2.6 charger? Hmmm... undecided, let's say twin for the sake of argument.
What is faster, a OEM/3.0 twin kit, or a 3.0 charger? 3.0 charger.
What is faster, a 2.6/3.2 twin kit, or a 3.0 charger? Hmmm... undecided. Ditto.
etc.
So a bigger charger outperform a smaller charger? OMG!!! My theories have been PROVEN!!! Put a bigger charger on, and you can make more power, be it twins or singles.
What is faster, a OEM/3.0 twin kit, or a stock charger? Twin.
What is faster, a OEM/3.0 twin kit, or a 2.6 charger? Hmmm... undecided, let's say twin for the sake of argument.
What is faster, a OEM/3.0 twin kit, or a 3.0 charger? 3.0 charger.
What is faster, a 2.6/3.2 twin kit, or a 3.0 charger? Hmmm... undecided. Ditto.
etc.
So a bigger charger outperform a smaller charger? OMG!!! My theories have been PROVEN!!!
Put a bigger charger on, and you can make more power, be it twins or singles.
:thumb: I believe there are gonna be some big singles come out this next year. The only thing that will be holding us back is rpm.
As of today, I would venture a guess that if you wanted the most HP out of a Dmax:
Dual high-output CP3's
50-100% injectors
Racing fuel
High pressure lift pump system
A GT5533 sized single
1.5:1 P/R Roots blower
Nitrous intercooling between stages, no air-air or air/water.
Light propane fogging to assist ignition rate.
Maximum engine displacement
14:1 CR (see roots blower)
4500 peak HP rpm, shifting at 5000, flat powerband.
But that's just a wild-arse guess, nor would I assume that the engine would survive at that level, probably 1600+ rwhp.
And yes, I will have another beer.
If I offended anyone in this thread, my apologies. You wouldn't be the first folk I offended, and I can guarantee you won't be the last.
Dual high-output CP3's
50-100% injectors
Racing fuel
High pressure lift pump system
A GT5533 sized single
1.5:1 P/R Roots blower
Nitrous intercooling between stages, no air-air or air/water.
Light propane fogging to assist ignition rate.
Maximum engine displacement
14:1 CR (see roots blower)
4500 peak HP rpm, shifting at 5000, flat powerband.
But that's just a wild-arse guess, nor would I assume that the engine would survive at that level, probably 1600+ rwhp.
And yes, I will have another beer.
If I offended anyone in this thread, my apologies. You wouldn't be the first folk I offended, and I can guarantee you won't be the last.
Based on your requirements i would vote twins. lower egt's, don't have to turn as high of RPM. The RPM thing is the reason i went twins. I feel it's alot easier on the motor turning lower rpm's. I have a GT 4202 truck in my yard and my truck with the twins. The twins are a hell of alot more fun to drive everyday.
Kelley I am going to have to respectfully disagree with that statement.
Huge torque at low rpms is what kills these motors. Twins are perfect for making huge power right out of the hole. The higher in the rpm range the less torque a motor makes. Most big single trucks don't lite until higher in the rpm and cannot make the huge torque numbers that are put out by twins.
i think what he was trying to say is you have boost at lower rpms which would keep the egts down which is what some people feel saves the motor.
Travis we should see how our trucks do racing. you still have a stock bottom end right?
Travis we should see how our trucks do racing. you still have a stock bottom end right?