LBZ: Rods So many choices

[Utahski]

I still do not understand why Utahski posted in this thread, or what his background is.

I hate to say it, but after reading the thread again, it reads like he was "put up to it". A common but irritating sales tactic on internet sites, that I call the Proxy Attack.

As far as I can tell from this thread, he has never run aftermarket rods, isn't a machinist or engineer, and doesn't sell rods. At least when Ben posted critically, his opinion was based on past experience. Utahski on the other hand claims no such experience, or any stake whatsoever.

Now the question becomes, "Should we allow that kind of posting?"

That is a toughy. We certainly permit differing opinions on tech issues, but what if the "opinions" aren't really their's and are just proxy attacks from competing shops? We don't permit Vendor Wars, and the proxy attack has always been a popular way around such rules.

As you can see, it can chase tech off a board. Many shops believe that tech on websites (other than their ads) negatively affects their business, so it is in their best interest to chase away as many techies as possible.

There is no simple solution for this problem, but I certainly thank all of you who posted their opinions questioning Utahski. Tomorrow it will be lift pumps, camshafts, converters, axles, etc. The best way to defend again proxy attacks is to question the attacker and their motives.

Question my motives all you want. Say I was "put up to" something and you'd be wrong. If others do "proxy attacks," fine, I don't. Nobody puts me up to anything so don't even go there. I've explained enough, if someone doesn't understand my reasons then they just don't understand.....I'm not gonna bother with it anymore. Funny how things change according to who's doing the posting. Some people get slammed, some don't. I remember how Wade took a huge beating about his aluminum rods, now these same people don't like me saying something about this. Maybe just a little hypocritical?

 

[McRat]

Question my motives all you want. Say I was "put up to" something and you'd be wrong. If others do "proxy attacks," fine, I don't. Nobody puts me up to anything so don't even go there. I've explained enough, if someone doesn't understand my reasons then they just don't understand.....I'm not gonna bother with it anymore. Funny how things change according to who's doing the posting. Some people get slammed, some don't. I remember how Wade took a huge beating about his aluminum rods, now these same people don't like me saying something about this. Maybe just a little hypocritical?

Yes, since you claim you do not have a dog in this hunt, your motives are questionable. Looks like I'm not the only one with those suspicions; even some who butt heads with me on a regular basis are puzzled as well.

Wade took a "beating" because he spent a lot of effort slamming other shops and members. It really didn't have a lot to do with rods or 7,000 rpm or anything else.

But, according to your opinions here, since Wade was hyping rods he never brought to market, I would expect that you slammed him as well? If not, why not? Since you stated the members here are "gullible", why didn't you attempt to educate them at the time? Whereas John Noonan does have experience with racing rod design, Wade Moody had zero background other than he ran stock Cummins rods. Is that the "diesel experience" you find valuable?

I have no dog in this hunt other than as hotrodder and board owner. As a hotrodder, I have no problems with shops developing new goodies for our trucks. As a board owner, I have an interest in stopping those who want to chase tech content off our board.

You still have not outlined your qualifications on the subject of this thread, but you have claimed another member of this site is underqualified, and repeated the accusation.

Please tell us why.


PS - If you think I'm trying to make you look foolish, that is certainly not the case. You are doing a great job, and need no assistance.

 

[JOHNBOY]

Question my motives all you want. Say I was "put up to" something and you'd be wrong. If others do "proxy attacks," fine, I don't. Nobody puts me up to anything so don't even go there. I've explained enough, if someone doesn't understand my reasons then they just don't understand.....I'm not gonna bother with it anymore. Funny how things change according to who's doing the posting. Some people get slammed, some don't. I remember how Wade took a huge beating about his aluminum rods, now these same people don't like me saying something about this. Maybe just a little hypocritical?

You may not be doing as directed by someone but, your deffinately doing it to push someone. I call it Koolaid induced blindness.

Wade claimed he was first to think of an aluminium Dmax rod. He was not. Here is how Wade works. No idea is a good idea, till it is Wades idea. Funny thing about Wade. You post something new. He would get on and bash it, but then send you a PM wanting to know more. Wade got banned for his outright attacks on other members. Nothing to do with the rods.

I know of 2 set of aluminuim rods that will most likely be in running engines long before Wades.

 

[McRat]

Utahski,

After a bit of thought on this matter, here's what is going to happen.

This thread was your warning. If you jump into another thread to slam a competitor or potential competitor of shops you are affiliated with, you will still be able to read this board, but no longer be able to post.

You might not know this, but when Wade Moody joined this board, I took the same stance defending him as I do now for John Noonan. It was only after Wade started harassing other shops that he had his posting privileges removed.

Same situation, and I'm going to make the same decision. If Noonan starts attacking shops out of the blue, or if you do, the result will be the same as with Wade.

Thank you for clearing up how the matter should be dealt with.

 

[dmax65]

I hate to say it, but after reading the thread again, it reads like he was "put up to it". A common but irritating sales tactic on internet sites, that I call the Proxy Attack.

Pat....If this statement is directed at me as if I put dave up to posting something then I resent this statement. Personally, I don't care one bit how many people are building rods. I use other rods in customer builds besides my own, depends on their budget. The only reason I posted at all was to explain why some rods cost in excess of the 2K mark. People think these are easy parts to make and that is not the case. I hope Johns company does come out with some rods that are at his goal, if the quality and testing proves out, I'll probably use his too.

 

[McRat]

I hate to say it, but after reading the thread again, it reads like he was "put up to it". A common but irritating sales tactic on internet sites, that I call the Proxy Attack.

Pat....If this statement is directed at me as if I put dave up to posting something then I resent this statement. Personally, I don't care one bit how many people are building rods. I use other rods in customer builds besides my own, depends on their budget. The only reason I posted at all was to explain why some rods cost in excess of the 2K mark. People think these are easy parts to make and that is not the case. I hope Johns company does come out with some rods that are at his goal, if the quality and testing proves out, I'll probably use his too.

I suppose time will tell. In any case, the goal was attained; maybe Noonan will be back, maybe he won't. When I first spoke with John, I did not know he was involved with the mfg of rods, just that he has a Dmax (actually, his girlfriend's IIRC). I invited him to this site as my guest. How embarassing.

You were certainly reading this thread when Utahski decided to trash John and discuss your parts. I do know you have a telephone, and also know how to use PM's. And you also know how post publically "I hope Johns company does come out with some rods that are at his goal, if the quality and testing proves out, I'll probably use his too." See your post.

Apparently none of that happened until now. And you've been reading the progression of the thread.

But back to the subject,

I also know that several hundred companies make connecting rods dating back for over 100 years, from 1/10th a horsepower to 100,000HP. I'm sure they are difficult to make, but claims they are near impossible to make started back when they were $4000 a set and only one mfr. Now that at least 5 companies are making them, at a lower cost, I'm puzzled.

 

[John Noonan]

Well after swearing off of making Dmax rods I have been quoted just under $10,000.00 for the tooling/forging die. I can see why some companies may have started up by charging more in the beginning (to recoup the die/tooling cost perhaps) however I would think that if the rods are what I think they would be we could do well with them.

I will start a poll later to see how many people here have installed aftermarket rods to assist in gauging a potential future sales figure over time.

Thanks for the PM's and support.


John Noonan from some rod and piston company.

 

[paint94979]

Bump...

 

[TheBac]

I was just thinking that all John had to do was look at the "Rod Group Buy" thread to see there's interest. It would be nice to have options.

 

[duratothemax]

I guess 'john noonan from some rod company' realized he was in over his head and backed out. Thats too bad, he seemed so confident that he would set out and make something better than crowers @ half the price and prove me wrong.. As if we thought he was actually going to go somewhere with his duramax rod endeavor. :rofl:

 

[TrentNell]

I guess 'john noonan from some rod company' realized he was in over his head and backed out. Thats too bad, he seemed so confident that he would set out and make something better than crowers @ half the price and prove me wrong.. As if we thought he was actually going to go somewhere with his duramax rod endeavor. :rofl:

Ben , i never doubted that Jon would be able to build a quality rod , but i guarantee they would be above 2g's just like any other rod on the market once done properly .

 

[Benito]

I guess 'john noonan from some rod company' realized he was in over his head and backed out. Thats too bad, he seemed so confident that he would set out and make something better than crowers @ half the price and prove me wrong.. As if we thought he was actually going to go somewhere with his duramax rod endeavor.

Ben, motorcycle rods might not require the fitment and precision of your converter unlock switches, but everyones gotta start somewhere, right?

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/penguin1494/BT_Dieselworks/IMG_8161Large.jpg

PS- are your brackets forged, or billet?

He never asked you to try his rods, and you've already expressed your opinion of his potential product. Let's not all dilute an otherwise informative thread by repeating ourselves everytime John posts something...

Maybe if you asked the sort of questions that John is asking now before you tried your previous rods, you wouldn't have had the bad experience that you did.

 

[Benito]

Sincerely,
The F'n New Guy

 

[duratothemax]

I guess 'john noonan from some rod company' realized he was in over his head and backed out. Thats too bad, he seemed so confident that he would set out and make something better than crowers @ half the price and prove me wrong.. As if we thought he was actually going to go somewhere with his duramax rod endeavor.

Ben, motorcycle rods might not require the fitment and precision of your converter unlock switches, but everyones gotta start somewhere, right?

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/penguin1494/BT_Dieselworks/IMG_8161Large.jpg

PS- are your brackets forged, or billet?

He never asked you to try his rods, and you've already expressed your opinion of his potential product. Let's not all dilute an otherwise informative thread by repeating ourselves everytime John posts something...

Maybe if you asked the sort of questions that John is asking now before you tried your previous rods, you wouldn't have had the bad experience that you did.

John- I didnt know "billet" was a type of material? Seeing as you're making the rods you should know that.

To answer your question no, they arent "made out of billet".

If you come out with rods in the next 6 months and they prove to be as strong or stronger than crowers/carillos/howards for less than 2,500 dollars then you can laugh me off the face of the earth, but until then, you're all talk. Go away.

I remember back when crower and some other companies were first developing rods for the duramax. It was probably before you even owned a duramax. They didnt come on the forums and talk them up and then not deliver. It was all behind the scenes, and if you needed them, you got in and found about them yourself. Back in 2005 I could count the number of duramax rod failures (due to overpowering) on one hand. And only about 1 or 2 of those were talked about in the open. MrMagu was one, and I forget who the other was, but it was an LB7 running lots of propane, w/m, nitrous, and a bastard stack.

There was even some clown (I forget who) who said "we dont need aftermarket rods, just shot peen the stock rods and tune the engine properly and the stock rods will hold up". Eric [merchant] argued with him and then he disappeared, probably after he realized that he was wrong.

So does John (or you, I assume you and john are in cahoots) have any updates for us? Or is he still making scooter rods?

ben

 

[ChevyDieselLLY]

:happy:

 

[Stingpuller]

Rod's

Ben, Do you get up in the morning and kick the dog?

 

[TrentNell]

Ben, Do you get up in the morning and kick the dog?

:spit:

 

[duratothemax]

haha no I do not...

Its just that I could have seen this fizzleing out 5 months ago, that the guy was basically just looking for attention. If he was gonna do it, then do it already, and THEN tell us about it.

Maybe I just have an extra bad taste left over in my mouth (yeah go ahead, make some stupid dirty joke) from non-crower/carillo/howards rods, but if John ever comes out with these rods and you guys all jump on the bandwagen, remember, there is a 50/50 chance they will fail. And if/when they do, I will be sitting back in my chair laughing my behind off.

The fact that he came on an internet forum asking about how to make duramax rods (basically, reading between the lines) should throw up a red flag right there. Especially with totally irrelevant (to the diesel engine world) questions like "so how much boost are you guys looking to run?".

ben

 

[duratothemax]

so, any updates? Does John have any rods for us yet?

 

[SmokeShow]

I asked back about 6mths ago & there won't be any duramax rods coming from his co.