Question: QA1 Shocks

JoshH

JoshH

Daggum farm truck
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You never really want the rear to squat. What you want is separation between the body and the tire so the suspension pushes the tire into the ground by pushing up on the rear of the body.
 
TheBac

TheBac

Why do I keep doing this?
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So....would you use suspension stops (like for pulling) at the strip to limit body squat?

All I know is my front end lifts a LOT less with the new shocks, but the rear still sits like it did before, as the caltracs dont so anything to limit squat. It seems to work.

I guess I was trying to say that you dont want the "fulcrum" of the lift/squat seesaw to be in the middle of the truck (under the driver), you'd rather have the fulcrum point somewhere near the front axle itself. Did that make sense?
 
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gmduramax

gmduramax

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Jun 12, 2008
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JoshH said:
You never really want the rear to squat. What you want is separation between the body and the tire so the suspension pushes the tire into the ground by pushing up on the rear of the body.
Click to expand...

What's your truck run? And what are your 60's
 
TrentNell

TrentNell

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JoshH said:
You never really want the rear to squat. What you want is separation between the body and the tire so the suspension pushes the tire into the ground by pushing up on the rear of the body.
Click to expand...

X2 , it will increase rear tire traction and help keep the front end down . to me my goal is to increase , "Rise" and "anti-squat" right untill it hops or bucks and then take a bit out and its perfect :D just dont mistake axel wrap and to much initial hit . Its going to take a 4 lkinked rear for me to go any further .
 
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gmduramax

gmduramax

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TrentNell said:
X2 , it will increase rear tire traction and help keep the front end down . to me my goal is to increase , "Rise" and "anti-squat" right untill it hops or bucks and then take a bit out and its perfect :D just dont mistake axel wrap and to much initial hit . Its going to take a 4 lkinked rear for me to go any further .
Click to expand...

Does the CalTracs create the rise?
 
TheBac

TheBac

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I just went back and examined the video of my last run. On lanuch, the front rises and stays up thru the first 100ft or so but the rear stayed level...or at least didnt squat enough that it was evident.

Hell...what do I know anyway? I honestly just dont know what works best. I just got lucky.
 
TrentNell

TrentNell

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gmduramax said:
Does your truck spin off the line? Do you heat up your tires any?
Click to expand...

no it doesnt spin , I dont heat them up but I havent ran it enough on " real " power to know what it will due , On my 1 run at full power i left soft at 2300 and it just hooked and went , 60 was only 1.64 but with out leaving harder i cant say .
 
M

maxaholic

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Ok this might sound stupid and someone may have already discussed it. But why not mount the traction bars on the top of the axle and have them connect to the rear of the frame. My thinking is that maybe it will transfer more weight and keep the front planted.

Flame preparedness ready. :D
 
Subman

Subman

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Jun 27, 2008
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maxaholic said:
Ok this might sound stupid and someone may have already discussed it. But why not mount the traction bars on the top of the axle and have them connect to the rear of the frame. My thinking is that maybe it will transfer more weight and keep the front planted.

Flame preparedness ready. :D
Click to expand...

No flame Shane and it's not a stupid question. Trent has a computer program that figures this stuff out. It's beyond me so maybe he can interject.
 
TheBac

TheBac

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What is this, the third thread about chassis/suspension setup???? We keep talking about the same things. :rofl: Doesnt anyone know someone in the suspension field that can shed some light on this?

Ok, it's borderline blasphemy, but I wonder if maybe we should be looking at what the FWD/AWD ricers do? They dont want to unload the front axle either. Granted, we're 3000lbs heavier, but the basic ideas could work just as well.

OnEdit:

For instance, what this gentleman posts here http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3947 makes some sense:

The answer to your question depends to some extent on how far you are willing to go.

AWD cars share many problems with the FWD cars as the problem of unloading the front suspension and subsequent loss of traction is pretty much the same if you have enough power to do it.

If your not spinning the front tires then you can pretty much ignore that issue.


There are two schools of thought on proper suspension setup for an AWD.

Some want it to squat in the back just like a rear wheel drive car. I disagree with this concept. I think it seems to work for some folks for all the wrong reasons. They are basically forcing the fronts to unload and transfere all power to the rear in effect converting the car to a RWD. This I think is putting a lot of stress on the tranny as it shuffles torque front to back, and probably adds unnecessary shock loading to the drive train. Also by unloading the front tires you drastically reduce your roll out as the tire contact patch shrinks as the tire unloads. All that work expended to rock the chassis back on the suspension, and load chassis bushings should have been sent to the ground to accelerate the car.

Most people seem to be getting best tire traction with tire pressures near 35 psi. There will still be some experimenting needed to get the best balance front to rear to get things to work best.

Run the lightest wheel and tire combo you can and still maintain traction.

Treat it like a FWD car.

Stiff rear suspension, high rear tire pressures and stiff springs to limit rear squat.

This keeps weight from transfering which has two benefits. If your spinning the fronts you need to keep weight on them to keep the front open diff from spinning one of the tires.

If you're not spinning the front you still want to limit weight transfer because all the time and work spent transfering weight should be expended moving the car forward.

In the front you want to lower the front if you can -- this lowers your center of gravity, which reduces weight transfer, and improves aerodynamic drag at the top end.

If you can, stiffen the front suspension to a rising motion to assist in delaying weight transfer.

Do not use excessive front camber, ideal is 0 camber for straight line acceleration.

The classic rule of drag racing is to limit all unnecessary motion int he chassis. To do that you might want to look at stiff motor mounts and tranny mounts (ie STI type)
Click to expand...
 
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TrentNell

TrentNell

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TheBac said:
What is this, the third thread about chassis/suspension setup???? We keep talking about the same things. :rofl: Doesnt anyone know someone in the suspension field that can shed some light on this?

Ok, it's borderline blasphemy, but I wonder if maybe we should be looking at what the FWD/AWD ricers do? They dont want to unload the front axle either. Granted, we're 3000lbs heavier, but the basic ideas could work just as well.
Click to expand...
already been done :thumb:

All the info in the link Josh posted has all the light you need ? just have to be able to put it into practice , and that requires parts .
 
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