Piston options

[MarkBroviak]

No. But if I were looking at only cast options, I would go with fingers. But I'm looking at an entire new piston as well with a new design.

Caden, honestly at the power levels you will be mostly pistons won't be your first issue unless something is seriously wrong specially since your looking at forged anyways. You'll most likely fall prey to a broken crank like many are/have already had happen. From my personal experiences, if someone wants the most reliable, longest lasting with out a re-fresh for rings in a street driven truck you won't find a better piston than the fingers oval race cast. Making power fuel only is a far more difficult task than with nitrious so trying to compare Wade's power to Brett's is not a fair comparison Dave C. no matter how you look at it. Wade's truck is impressive no doubt, but put it at the same weight as Brett's and see what happens or doesn't happen.

 

[Cknight199]

Dyno circuit:roflmao:

Hey it brings money into the sport so why not.

 

[Cknight199]

Caden, honestly at the power levels you will be mostly pistons won't be your first issue unless something is seriously wrong specially since your looking at forged anyways. You'll most likely fall prey to a broken crank like many are/have already had happen. From my personal experiences, if someone wants the most reliable, longest lasting with out a re-fresh for rings in a street driven truck you won't find a better piston than the fingers oval race cast. Making power fuel only is a far more difficult task than with nitrious so trying to compare Wade's power to Brett's is not a fair comparison Dave C. no matter how you look at it. Wade's truck is impressive no doubt, but put it at the same weight as Brett's and see what happens or doesn't happen.

Can you confirm if an alternate firing cam has broken a crank yet?

 

[MarkBroviak]

I can confirm that none of my motors have broken a crank yet with an af cam, nor have I personally seen any actual proof of a broken crank with an af cam. I do however have on record one of my trucks that broke 2 cranks back to back within 3,000 miles(both internally and externally balanced) and now has over 6K miles without issue with an AF cam in it(swapped for same cam profile just af version) and it is externally balanced. I hope for your sake your doing an AF cam cause it will get you a lot further down the road.

 

[Dave c]

Who made 2100+ HP with them?

It was a engine Wade built, but found out today i wasn't supposed to run my mouth about it.

 

[Dave c]

Caden, honestly at the power levels you will be mostly pistons won't be your first issue unless something is seriously wrong specially since your looking at forged anyways. You'll most likely fall prey to a broken crank like many are/have already had happen. From my personal experiences, if someone wants the most reliable, longest lasting with out a re-fresh for rings in a street driven truck you won't find a better piston than the fingers oval race cast. Making power fuel only is a far more difficult task than with nitrious so trying to compare Wade's power to Brett's is not a fair comparison Dave C. no matter how you look at it. Wade's truck is impressive no doubt, but put it at the same weight as Brett's and see what happens or doesn't happen.

Mark, I was not trying to take any light away from the oval pistons, nore do a comparison, I was just answering what I knew about the max pistons hp in general. Sorry for the confusion.

However Its pretty well known that nitrous beats up a piston way worse than fuel only, as cylinder psi is extremely high and heat is extremely high. Also the combination in question only used 40 psi boost to make that power and no smoke at all. That is hard to do in my book. With more fuel and air im sure power would be higher.

 

[Cknight199]

I can confirm that none of my motors have broken a crank yet with an af cam, nor have I personally seen any actual proof of a broken crank with an af cam. I do however have on record one of my trucks that broke 2 cranks back to back within 3,000 miles(both internally and externally balanced) and now has over 6K miles without issue with an AF cam in it(swapped for same cam profile just af version) and it is externally balanced. I hope for your sake your doing an AF cam cause it will get you a lot further down the road.

Yes I am planning on doing an AF Firing cam. I haven't seen any evidence or proof of an actual crank broken with an alt firing cam, so they seem to be working well. Socal is probably the best option that I want if I were to want a custom ground AF cam?

 

[Cknight199]

Mark, I was not trying to take any light away from the oval pistons, nore do a comparison, I was just answering what I knew about the max pistons hp in general. Sorry for the confusion.

However Its pretty well known that nitrous beats up a piston way worse than fuel only, as cylinder psi is extremely high and heat is extremely high. Also the combination in question only used 40 psi boost to make that power and no smoke at all. That is hard to do in my book. With more fuel and air im sure power would be higher.

Did wade make that power with that 100% billet motor?

 

[MACKIN]

No. But if I were looking at only cast options, I would go with fingers. But I'm looking at an entire new piston as well with a new design.

What new piston and design? What is out there that has done more HP then what is posted in this thread or even close to 2000 HP to go by comparison?

 

[MarkBroviak]

Mark, I was not trying to take any light away from the oval pistons, nore do a comparison, I was just answering what I knew about the max pistons hp in general. Sorry for the confusion.

However Its pretty well known that nitrous beats up a piston way worse than fuel only, as cylinder psi is extremely high and heat is extremely high. Also the combination in question only used 40 psi boost to make that power and no smoke at all. That is hard to do in my book. With more fuel and air im sure power would be higher.

Ummm, yes and no. Nitrous is hard cause of the heat generate from it but as far as over all pressure applied to the piston I'd have to disagree with that one unless you are spraying it in the same rpm range as we are loading the motor fuel only. We have logs of Brett's truck dropping back down to 1975rpms on the shift and pulling all the way back up through the rpm range which is far more load on the piston than a motor being sprayed and never dropping below 3000rpms. With nitrous you are supplying the extra oxygen that your turbos are not providing so it plays a big part in how you are able to tune it. At the end of the day breaking a piston is a big difference than melting one from heat, agreed? Torque is what usually breaks shit.

 

[Fingers]

15.25:1 is the limit for cast because the bowl gets too close to the cast-in oil gallery. Taking material from a different place significantly impacts the piston's integrity. No oil gallery in the forged pistons to worry about.

Nitrous does a lot of things. First, it is a fuel in of itself. Self contained as it turns out. It also releases extra oxygen when it lights off, so it is an oxidizer allowing you to burn more fuel. The net result is more heat, which is, after all, what makes the power in the first place.

Timing is key to controlling the chamber temps and getting the most out of the spray.

FWIW, the ovals have about 10% less surface area than most other designs. Thermal transfer to the piston is proportional to the surface area. That is one of the drawbacks of the design. The pistons take longer to warm up than stock. So you might haze longer in the morning on a cold day.

 

[Cknight199]

What new piston and design? What is out there that has done more HP then what is posted in this thread or even close to 2000 HP to go by comparison?

Well it's CP Carillo's new piston. But It is more the fact that they are forged. The Pistons have done 180hp on a chassis dyno with them before. But I have also never heard of a forged piston breaking.

 

[duramaxzak]

Anyone know what piston Wes is running in Cummins killer? I'm guessing he's in the 1800hp neighborhood.

 

[Cknight199]

Anyone know what piston Wes is running in Cummins killer? I'm guessing he's in the 1800hp neighborhood.

That's another thing that I am taking into account. Yes fingers has had good hp on a dyno, but a lot of 'unlimited class' pullers run forged. Has there been a forged oval piston yet?

 

[MarkBroviak]

Well it's CP Carillo's new piston. But It is more the fact that they are forged. The Pistons have done 180hp on a chassis dyno with them before. But I have also never heard of a forged piston breaking.

Here is a video of Mahle Forged pistons being broken at the Diesel Power Challenge with spray a couple years back. Perfect example of way too much cylinder pressure at the wrong time. It's not the only one I know of but it was the easiest one to find a video of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5perV0v6lkk

 

[MarkBroviak]

That's another thing that I am taking into account. Yes fingers has had good hp on a dyno, but a lot of 'unlimited class' pullers run forged. Has there been a forged oval piston yet?

Yes, the majority of my pulling truck motors are running the forged version of them cause of the compression ratio constraints.

 

[IdahoRob]

Yes I am planning on doing an AF Firing cam. I haven't seen any evidence or proof of an actual crank broken with an alt firing cam, so they seem to be working well. Socal is probably the best option that I want if I were to want a custom ground AF cam?

I have not broken a crank with the SoCal A/F cam yet. I broke a crank most every season before using them. I have run forged pistons for years, have seen some ring/land issues after a hard season but never had a failure.

Verlon runs the fingers pistons and also won the finals this year. Tows, beats the snot out of it on the street and track. He averages 800-900hp all the time, not that impressive unless you know what he does to his trucks on a daily basis.

 

[MarkBroviak]

I have not broken a crank with the SoCal A/F cam yet. I broke a crank most every season before using them. I have run forged pistons for years, have seen some ring/land issues after a hard season but never had a failure.

Verlon runs the fingers pistons and also won the finals this year. Tows, beats the snot out of it on the street and track. He averages 800-900hp all the time, not that impressive unless you know what he does to his trucks on a daily basis.

X2, and could agree more Rob!:thumb:

 

[Cknight199]

Just curious, how many miles should I get from forged pistons without needing to ring them again? Is it related to the HP that I use, and to refresh a forged motor that has wore out rings, what all is involved?

 

[DIESELMAFIAPER.LB7]

Caden. seriously. dude...... you need to give up you're never happy with any of the answers you are given. Please stop asking these questions over and over and over again fingers cast pistons have proven themselves end of story you'll hate having to re ring a engine once a year that's alot of money to tear the engine down every year. Run fingers cast or run cp's stop asking let us know when you actually build your motor......:thumb:

Not trying to be an ass but jeebus enough man