Off Season Sled Pulling Mods

[quadracer37]

Everyone has there own opinion, and im not here to knock them or change minds. But my frame is not border line OEM from axle to axle it is completly a stock frame 100%. All we did was make are bump stops out of round pipe, so basically if i had used square tubing and came strsight out for my bump stop this would have never got brought up? Last point there are more out there that have the same thing done, so alot good trucks would be in trouble. But i see your point theres alot rules that could be viewed in a million different ways!

Only reason I mentioned it is bc I saw no factory rail behind the rear tire, idk if its round or square tube put in, doesn't really make a difference. You guys did a great job on the truck non the less, hopefully we get to pull against you some more this year. :thumb:

 

[Sinister]

If you have a weight box on your truck then that must be against the rules right? I mean the weight box is welded or bolted to the frame so that is altering it and breaking the rules... Rule says oem frame not stock unaltered frame. From the looks of it Wes you just used a ext. cab short box frame. So now you can go run ISP or PPL. Carry on haters

 

[quadracer37]

If you have a weight box on your truck then that must be against the rules right? I mean the weight box is welded or bolted to the frame so that is altering it and breaking the rules... Rule says oem frame not stock unaltered frame. From the looks of it Wes you just used a ext. cab short box frame. So now you can go run ISP or PPL. Carry on haters

Haters? Lol far from it, we're all truck pullers here :thumb:

 

[durallymax]

from what i've seen i agree 100%. its the last 2' that some people might have a problem with

People will complai. If they loose.

I see no advantage to having/not having factory frame after rear axle. Its there for the bumper. Everybodys factory frame is gusseted plated and boxed so far it shouldnt matter anyways.

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[05smoker]

People will complai. If they loose.

I see no advantage to having/not having factory frame after rear axle. Its there for the bumper. Everybodys factory frame is gusseted plated and boxed so far it shouldnt matter anyways.

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How much weight was cut off the back of the frame and now resides 60" in front of the front axle? Not much I know, but it's a reason to complain. Just like cutting out a bed floor.

That being said. Beautiful truck Wes. Good luck this year.

 

[Leadfoot]

People will complai. If they loose.

I see no advantage to having/not having factory frame after rear axle. Its there for the bumper. Everybodys factory frame is gusseted plated and boxed so far it shouldnt matter anyways.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2

People don't just complain when they lose, they just complain MORE. I've seen guys who win complain about other trucks.

If a guys truck is not legal but consistently gets last place it's almost never an issue. If he runs the SAME EXACT setup and wins, then crap hits the fan....

What most truck pullers and organizations have lost over the years is common sense. Generally there is a reason or reasons for a rule to be written.

For example: Guys in higher classes tend to use a tube chassis as they can be built more rigid, lighter, and allow for "inherent design" (attachment points for suspension, safety items, hitch, can be built in for optimum results). The drawback is usually the pricetag.

Lower classes outlaw them for several reasons. One usually being cost (most guys already have or can easily and cheaply aquire an OEM frame), second being weight (replacing and entire frame with a lightweight tube chassis can make a huge difference) so to keep costs down and fair competition, they don't allow it.

In a class that requires a full bed floor (one of the intents is not wanting to allowing removing sections of the truck to allow weight to be placed furthur forward than intended), it would not make much sense to allow a guy to chop the rear section of frame off. But if they allow gutted beds (most would just have bed skins), then allowing the rear of the frame to be hacked is not a big deal.

Chopping off an OEM frame section and replacing it with lighter tube (rectangular, square, etc) steel/aluminum and getting the weight out 60" in front of the front axle is an advantage (been there done that).

Not picking on Wes (as I didn't look at the rules for his org) or anyone in particular but in general over the years a lot of guys have done things they probably should not have, then show up to the pulls and say it MUST be legal because this is how "I interpret it". That's where many tech guys/committees have completely fallen down by not looking at the intent of the rule and making decisions on legality based on the reason the rule was actually written to begin with (instead they focus too much on the wording...which is usually poor). The wording is often times poor because those making rules know what they mean, but don't state it well. Part of the reason rules end up being such a hot topic of discussion.

The other thing is rules are often written by those who "intend to skirt them". They purposely leave a loophole that they intend to exploit.....good for them, not good for the sport in general (just look all over the internet at sled pulling discussion forums and you will see it). Guys say they want clear rules, yet they never vote for them.....

Wes, awesome looking truck and amazing craftsmanship!

 

[Leadfoot]

If you have a weight box on your truck then that must be against the rules right? I mean the weight box is welded or bolted to the frame so that is altering it and breaking the rules... Rule says oem frame not stock unaltered frame. From the looks of it Wes you just used a ext. cab short box frame. So now you can go run ISP or PPL. Carry on haters

?????

Classes that require full (or even unaltered) factory frames allow you to add, gusset, reinforce, weld to, etc. The INTENT is to keep people from swiss cheesing their frames or removing sections for weight and in some instances safety. Most guys who add a weight box, keep the existing frame and either weld or bolt on the weight box. They don't hack off the frame at the front axle and re-engineer a new front framerail section. If the rules require an OEM frame and someone did that, they would be breaking the intent of the rule if it was lighter in weight (advantage) or unsafe. If a guy built a section of frame that was heavier (disadvantage) and safe, it should be allowed. If a guy ran a truck that was 10 years old from the salt-belt and the section where the steering box and weight box was mounted was thin and rusted out, he should be able to re-inforce or build new as long is it was the same weight (or more) and safe. I would rather that than have the steering box let loose from the frame and take out a flagman.

I would hope if someone with an unsafe (rusted, swiss cheesed, etc) OEM frame tried to pull, the techs would not allow to run (doesn't always happen as the guy says rules say "OEM frame and nothing about strength").

The intent of a rule can also be for visual or aesthetics purposes as well (perception)....

Intent and common sense (two things missing from the sport).

 

[durallymax]

I understand your points but feel the amount of weight removed may be minimal. I guess every pound counts though and the main issue always comes down to "well he got to bend the rules so why cant I".

When we built our 640 Pro Farm, we looked at all of the rule books and followed them to the T. Got to the pulls and half of the guys didn't meet any of the rules in it when it came to safety and such. But, we were new to that division and didn't know anyone, just had the book. Tractor guys are a lot more hush hush.

My neighbors tube chassis truck with sheetmetal rear was so light in the rear that they added weight boxes so they could move the thing around better. It smoothed out some of their issues too.

 

[duramaxsandwich]

?????

Classes that require full (or even unaltered) factory frames allow you to add, gusset, reinforce, weld to, etc. The INTENT is to keep people from swiss cheesing their frames or removing sections for weight and in some instances safety. Most guys who add a weight box, keep the existing frame and either weld or bolt on the weight box. They don't hack off the frame at the front axle and re-engineer a new front framerail section. If the rules require an OEM frame and someone did that, they would be breaking the intent of the rule if it was lighter in weight (advantage) or unsafe. If a guy built a section of frame that was heavier (disadvantage) and safe, it should be allowed. If a guy ran a truck that was 10 years old from the salt-belt and the section where the steering box and weight box was mounted was thin and rusted out, he should be able to re-inforce or build new as long is it was the same weight (or more) and safe. I would rather that than have the steering box let loose from the frame and take out a flagman.

I would hope if someone with an unsafe (rusted, swiss cheesed, etc) OEM frame tried to pull, the techs would not allow to run (doesn't always happen as the guy says rules say "OEM frame and nothing about strength").

The intent of a rule can also be for visual or aesthetics purposes as well (perception)....

Intent and common sense (two things missing from the sport).

my fear would be some hill-rod would wack the rear of his frame off, weld some thin wall tubing out there just to support the bed, and run the hitch back to the rear axle. so when he gets smacked by the sled at 20mph and the rear of the truck folds up like an accordian and that would be a mess.

but at the end of the day it just comes down to what the tech gives the ok to

 

[EDP]

my fear would be some hill-rod would wack the rear of his frame off, weld some thin wall tubing out there just to support the bed, and run the hitch back to the rear axle. so when he gets smacked by the sled at 20mph and the rear of the truck folds up like an accordian and that would be a mess.

but at the end of the day it just comes down to what the tech gives the ok to

You referring to how stahls truck folded up a couple years ago????

 

[Leadfoot]

my fear would be some hill-rod would wack the rear of his frame off, weld some thin wall tubing out there just to support the bed, and run the hitch back to the rear axle. so when he gets smacked by the sled at 20mph and the rear of the truck folds up like an accordian and that would be a mess.

but at the end of the day it just comes down to what the tech gives the ok to

That goes back to where I said it would also need to be safe (ie. the common sense thing). A bumper/sled stop must be constructed safe enough to absorb an impact. If it's not, tech inspector should have stepped in.

Sled stops aren't designed to save your truck. They are designed to protect those hooking/unhooking (should truck "accidentally" go into gear), and be constructed in such a way that they don't get hung up on the buckboard if a truck "endo's". They must be strong enough for that at minimum. If you want them strong enough to keep a 50,000 lb sled from smashing your sheetmetal, that's on you.

We've forced guys to back into the buckboard at a slight angle to test the strength of a sled stop setup (safety first).

 

[Leadfoot]

When we built our 640 Pro Farm, we looked at all of the rule books and followed them to the T. Got to the pulls and half of the guys didn't meet any of the rules in it when it came to safety and such. But, we were new to that division and didn't know anyone, just had the book.

That's poor teching, if you followed the rules and others didn't. A lot of times guys are too afraid to hold one puller accountable for one rule as they know their truck doesn't meet another. If your truck was legal, I would have pushed it. I also know it's hard being the "new guy" and people start resenting you for it (call you names) and some clubs have "dirty" techs, but not calling a fellow competitor out is why things are allowed to get out of hand.

Our club as that way for years, it's now much better. At first I didn't make too many friends, but now I have quite a few because of it.

 

[durallymax]

That's poor teching, if you followed the rules and others didn't. A lot of times guys are too afraid to hold one puller accountable for one rule as they know their truck doesn't meet another. If your truck was legal, I would have pushed it. I also know it's hard being the "new guy" and people start resenting you for it (call you names) and some clubs have "dirty" techs, but not calling a fellow competitor out is why things are allowed to get out of hand.

Our club as that way for years, it's now much better. At first I didn't make too many friends, but now I have quite a few because of it.

That was when we had it able to go to 640 hot farm.

It was a group that was a little disorganized. Only pulled with them a couple times then left. Some things we took further than others. Rigid front axle was the main thing i couldnt believe some people got away with.

The group we mainly run with now has some pretty good guys in it. We were able to get intercoolers pushed through for the 640 class and somebody else got cut tires pushed through.

Although we never seem to find time to pull it.

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[duramaxsandwich]

You referring to how stahls truck folded up a couple years ago????

No

 

[Sinister]

?????

Classes that require full (or even unaltered) factory frames allow you to add, gusset, reinforce, weld to, etc. The INTENT is to keep people from swiss cheesing their frames or removing sections for weight and in some instances safety. Most guys who add a weight box, keep the existing frame and either weld or bolt on the weight box. They don't hack off the frame at the front axle and re-engineer a new front framerail section. If the rules require an OEM frame and someone did that, they would be breaking the intent of the rule if it was lighter in weight (advantage) or unsafe. If a guy built a section of frame that was heavier (disadvantage) and safe, it should be allowed. If a guy ran a truck that was 10 years old from the salt-belt and the section where the steering box and weight box was mounted was thin and rusted out, he should be able to re-inforce or build new as long is it was the same weight (or more) and safe. I would rather that than have the steering box let loose from the frame and take out a flagman.

I would hope if someone with an unsafe (rusted, swiss cheesed, etc) OEM frame tried to pull, the techs would not allow to run (doesn't always happen as the guy says rules say "OEM frame and nothing about strength").

The intent of a rule can also be for visual or aesthetics purposes as well (perception)....

Intent and common sense (two things missing from the sport).

Any rule from a normal club says oem or 1 ton or less frame. Never say what you can do with it. If i want to take a frame from a 1 ton and drill holes in it to make it light I can, anyone can. Gas guys have been doing it for years. I know of a truck that has more holes in the frame than i can count, hooks about 30 times a year and never bent or broke.

If some of you guys would start to paying more attention at pulls you could figure out you could make changes to your truck. You could actually think outside the box and do something other then what is done on the internet. You would also see trucks that have had 2 frames welded together....That seems safe.

Wes, Chris and all the other guys built a awesome truck with so many great ideas. I will bet a million dollars that it is one of the safest trucks out there.

To say you "pullers" are not hating is about as funny as calling yourselfs pullers. Just cuz you have hooked to seld and talk about it on the great all knowing internet does not make you a puller.

This is a pretty funny thread now tho. You guys are already afraid of truck that has not even beat you yet....And one more time carry on haters...I have a super secret unsafe truck to build....Honda RidgeLine frame is leagal right?

 

[quadracer37]

To say you "pullers" are not hating is about as funny as calling yourselfs pullers. Just cuz you have hooked to seld and talk about it on the great all knowing internet does not make you a puller.

This is a pretty funny thread now tho. You guys are already afraid of truck that has not even beat you yet....And one more time carry on haters...I have a super secret unsafe truck to build....Honda RidgeLine frame is leagal right?

:thumb:

 

[Leadfoot]

Any rule from a normal club says oem or 1 ton or less frame. Never say what you can do with it. If i want to take a frame from a 1 ton and drill holes in it to make it light I can, anyone can. Gas guys have been doing it for years. Yes they have, and some guys HAVE folded their frames, so don't make it sound like anyone can do it and do it correctly. I could make a faux 1 ton frame if i wanted to that was half the weight, or use the first foot and last foot of it and "cut out" the rest. Just because I can doesn't mean I should be allowed to (so many pullers think they are "entitled" to). I know a guy taking a holesaw to his entire frame in a street class (even if safe) would not fly. I guess some clubs differ there

Wes, Chris and all the other guys built a awesome truck with so many great ideas. I will bet a million dollars that it is one of the safest trucks out there.I don't think that was the concern here, safe does not equal legal and legal does not equal safe

To say you "pullers" are not hating is about as funny as calling yourselfs pullers. Just cuz you have hooked to seld and talk about it on the great all knowing internet does not make you a puller. :spit::hug:

This is a pretty funny thread now tho. You guys are already afraid of truck that has not even beat you yet.

I'ld rather see guys be up front and protest a truck they don't feel is "legal" as soon as they see it vs. only saying something after they get their butt kicked by it. I will never pull against this truck, don't know how many in this thread actually will either.

As long as you met the rules, you can use your Honda Ridgeline frame (it is factory 1 ton or less). Again legal does not equal safe and safe does not equal legal....

 

[durallymax]

I'ld rather see guys be up front and protest a truck they don't feel is "legal" as soon as they see it vs. only saying something after they get their butt kicked by it. I will never pull against this truck, don't know how many in this thread actually will either.

As long as you met the rules, you can use your Honda Ridgeline frame (it is factory 1 ton or less). Again legal does not equal safe and safe does not equal legal....

whos going to put up $500 or $1000 to protest a truck they don't think is safe? People don't protest until they loose when theres that kind of money to be lost.

 

[Leadfoot]

whos going to put up $500 or $1000 to protest a truck they don't think is safe? People don't protest until they loose when theres that kind of money to be lost.

I don't know how most clubs do it, but in our club if you put up $500 to protest a truck and it is found to be illegal, you get your money back. That way it doesn't somebody for doing the right thing.

 

[Yellow Jacket]

Whats the point if abusing a engine leaving at 5k+ rpm? Maybe I run a smaller single but never had to spin it like that.

We ran a 91mm gt55 and could leave the line around 4..... Although a 3.6x4.1 isn't THAT big of a charger, it came up easy...