Nitrous basics

[Diesel power]

What is Nitrous Oxide? (or Squeeze, Juice, NOS, N20, Spray, Shot, Laughing Gas)

Nitrous oxide, also known as dinitrogen oxide or dinitrogen monoxide, is a chemical compound with chemical formula N2O. Under room conditions, it is a colorless non-flammable gas, with a pleasant, slightly-sweet odor. It is commonly known as laughing gas due to the exhilarating effects of inhaling it, and because it can cause spontaneous laughter in some people; it is also known as NOS or nitrous in racing and motorsports. It is used in surgery and dentistry for its anesthetic and analgesic effects.



Nitrous oxide is present in the atmosphere where it acts as a powerful greenhouse gas. It is non-toxic and non-irritating in medical form but inhaling automotive grade nitrous oxide can be dangerous. Also note that when inhaled in pure form it will cause death by asphyxiation because at atmospheric temperatures and pressure, the oxygen in nitrous oxide is not available to the body.



Detailed Description

A nitrous oxide molecule is made up of 2 atoms of nitrogen and 1 atom of oxygen, giving it the chemical formula N2O. It is not to be confused with nitrogen oxide (also known as ‘NOx’) which is a poisonous gas produced by incorrect combustion. By volume nitrous contains 33% oxygen and 66% nitrogen, and by weight 36% oxygen (air is only 23.6% oxygen).

At 70° F nitrous oxide is a gas, and it takes a pressure of 760psi to compress it into a liquid (this is the form used in engines). The critical temperature is 97.7° F; at this temp the vapor pressure can no longer hold the nitrous in liquid form. When liquid nitrous is released, it will go from 760 PSI to 14.7 PSI (normal atmospheric pressure). It will then begin to boil and rapidly expand; the pressure drop will cause the temperature to decrease. It boils at minus 129 degrees F, and at 565 degrees F the molecules split into the two component gases; nitrogen and oxygen. The oxygen is then free to aid combustion, although it is non-flammable in itself, while the nitrogen acts as a damper to prevent detonation.

History

The gas was discovered by Joseph Priestley in 1772. Humphry Davy in the 1790s tested the gas on himself and some of his friends, including the poets Samuel Taylor Coleridge and Robert Southey. They soon realized that nitrous oxide considerably dulled the sensation of pain, even if the inhaler were still semi-conscious. And so it came into use as an anesthetic, particularly by dentists, who do not typically have access to the services of an anesthesiologist and who may benefit from a patient who can respond to verbal commands.

Nitrous Oxide was used during World War II by Luftwaffe aircraft with the GM-1 system to boost the power output of aircraft engines. Originally meant to provide the Luftwaffe standard aircraft with superior high-altitude performance, technological considerations limited its use to extremely high altitudes. Accordingly, it was only used by specialized planes like high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft, high-speed bombers and high-altitude interceptors. Thousands of German fighter and reconnaissance aircraft were equipped with the GM-1 system. The British Royal Air Force also used aircraft engines with performance enhanced by nitrous oxide. Interestingly, there was no use of nitrous oxide injection by the American military air forces other than very limited experimental use.

During the 1950s the famed stock car racer Smokey Yunick rediscovered nitrous oxide injection as one of his many schemes for winning races until discovered and outlawed by NASCAR. In the late-70s/early-80s nitrous oxide was "rediscovered" by drag racers and hot rodders.


Any questions? feel free to ask!!
Thanks
Wade

 

[MAXLLY]

Hope this stays tech for ya Wade.

What do you believe is the biggest mistake newcomers make when moving to N2O and diesel?

Lack of backpressure monitoring? Lack of reduction in timing? To much duration coupled with nitrous and low timing?

James

 

[Fingers]

The disassociation of N2O is exothermic.

 

[super diesel]

The disassociation of N2O is exothermic.

I second that motion!

 

[Diesel power]

Hope this stays tech for ya Wade.

What do you believe is the biggest mistake newcomers make when moving to N2O and diesel?

Lack of backpressure monitoring? Lack of reduction in timing? To much duration coupled with nitrous and low timing?

James

Well james all those listed are part of a potential problem.

But for starters, keeping bottle pressure consistent is the first step to good tuning.

Here is my first reccomendation for nitrous users.....

www.nanonitrous.com
Yes it works very well and has made my tuning much more better and consistent.

second is to start small and move up untill smoke goes away at WOT. start with a 0.040 jet

Third do not inject untill 2000rpm or 20lbs of boost

If it pops your injecting too early or are injecting too much( the engine will let you know if it likes it or not)

Let see where this goes.

 

[MAXLLY]

great product,Thanks Wade. Appears to keep bottle pressure very consistant i agree it removes variables.

that guy Koeler... when it comes to top shelf nitrous he seems to be everywhere.

 

[super diesel]

N2O basics

second is to start small and move up untill smoke goes away at WOT. start with a 0.040 jet

This is deep in realy high EGTs (been there many times). Be very, very careful. Pistons are on barrowed time at that point. This jet is way to small. May feel nothing at all. Most start at .055-.060. If using a .040 it will just get the turbo to spool on the line better (get it into it's map).

Third do not inject untill 2000rpm or 20lbs of boost
If it pops your injecting too early or are injecting too much( the engine will let you know if it likes it or not)

This is right on or even slightly higher. When the motor lets you know, it's sometimes spits parts out too. Been there.
Let see where this goes.

Good luck.....

 

[MAXLLY]

we have to go backwards before we can go forwards with N2O. Reduce timing, account for charger overspeed, whatever you pick. We have to reduce.

Then move forward. In other words if you getting 35* s in her and wait until shes getting hot... yea ur gonna break stuff. But whos fault is that?

Parts, Driver or Tuner? Respectfully, IMO it aint the trucks fault.

I mean no malice, just sayin it.

Trivia Done.

 

[Diesel power]

That stuff blowed up fast to.

Spose it depends on what "long time ago" means. 10's with a stock charger? and off the shelf tuning? As fast or faster than you? Only 1 DMAX truck i heard of from long time ago. Buck.

How fast i wanna go? Fast enough to make ya wonder about it

:rofl::rofl::rofl:Good one.

 

[Stingpuller]

Nos

I disagree on reducing timing on little setups. Anything under .100 maybe .115 I would not back it down. That is unless you are running really big timing(40 or more). Don't take that you can run big timing at low rpm's but a normal tune. Big injectors will change that some as it puts fuel in faster. Always run your bottle around 900 to 950 psi. If you run higher you will have a bigger drop in pressure within a given time frame. you can run them fancy pusher systems but with the little stuff we are running you don't need them. When you nearly empty a bottle a pass then you might want to check out a pusher system. I just made almost 150 hp more with a .090 jet and undrilled nozzle. You need fuel but not as much nos as some think(IMO). Jeff

 

[Diesel power]

I disagree on reducing timing on little setups. Anything under .100 maybe .115 I would not back it down. That is unless you are running really big timing(40 or more). Don't take that you can run big timing at low rpm's but a normal tune. Big injectors will change that some as it puts fuel in faster. Always run your bottle around 900 to 950 psi. If you run higher you will have a bigger drop in pressure within a given time frame. you can run them fancy pusher systems but with the little stuff we are running you don't need them. When you nearly empty a bottle a pass then you might want to check out a pusher system. I just made almost 150 hp more with a .090 jet and undrilled nozzle. You need fuel but not as much nos as some think(IMO). Jeff

I respectfully dissagree with most of your post.:hug:

 

[custom8726]

It would be nice to have a thread about Nitrous Basics. Not trivia, but basic pointers. Something like:

For a simple system -

10lb Bottle with pressure gauge installed. Keep pressure at 900psi-1200psi to insure consistant delivery. Use a bottle heater if you have problems keeping at least 900psi. If pressure falls too much, the nitrous becomes a gas, and comes out very slowly. Mount bottle "label up", and with the valve higher than the base. The internal pickup tube is installed opposite of the label down to the base. Weigh the bottle empty and write the number on the outside of the bottle if it's not already there. The pressure gauge doesn't tell you how much is left, just if it's liquid.

Solenoids come in different sizes. You don't need "fuel" solenoids, you only use the nitrous ones. The smallest ones are .060" internally, so using one with a jet bigger than .060" is pointless. Next size is ~.090", and the big ones are .113-.156", IIRC. The bigger solenoid, the more power it takes to drive them. The baby solenoids can be operated without a relay usually, but the bigger ones will need relays. If running multiple solenoids, don't wire them in series, they won't work. They have no polarity, so either wire can be ground or hot. Many times, poor grounding is a problem, so get a solid ground connection that goes to the engine, fuse block, or battery.

Jets come in two basic designs, and cannot be interchanged. Buy the jet holders at the same time as the jets to make sure you get the right ones. Jets are marked on the side like 060, which would a .060" jet.

Window switches are devices that tell the nitrous what RPM to come on at. The simpliest ones are the digital units like the MSD, about $100. There are some that use "pills" to control it, but they are not made for diesels, so you might have too high RPM pills to be useful. EFILive can turn on the nitrous for you at a given RPM on LB7's and LLY's.

etc, etc, etc.

With some pictures, wiring diagrams, etc.

Nitrous for dummy's, Thanks.. Also some good tech already keep it coming so us nitrous newbee's can learn something...

 

[Stingpuller]

NOS Basic's

Wade, You try to impress us with your talk and thats just fine if it makes you fill better. But you try and make it sound like the normal guy needs all this fancy stuff and they don't! Most of the guys here are not trying to run in the 9's with there stuff. I'm a nobody and damn proud of it! You my son are trying to be a somebody:hug: in the worst way. You keep talking this fancy stuff so us little people can learn what we need to do. Just for the record I meet you a TS in 07 when you raced Dockboy. You acted like a ass then, still the same I see. Jeff

 

[MAXLLY]

I disagree on reducing timing on little setups. Anything under .100 maybe .115 I would not back it down. That is unless you are running really big timing(40 or more). Don't take that you can run big timing at low rpm's but a normal tune. Big injectors will change that some as it puts fuel in faster. Always run your bottle around 900 to 950 psi. If you run higher you will have a bigger drop in pressure within a given time frame. you can run them fancy pusher systems but with the little stuff we are running you don't need them. When you nearly empty a bottle a pass then you might want to check out a pusher system. I just made almost 150 hp more with a .090 jet and undrilled nozzle. You need fuel but not as much nos as some think(IMO). Jeff

Isn't this how Pat melted his pistons? .100 jet IIRC. Timing, heat and then nitrous? What you are desribing sounds like a recipe for that. How long this been working for you? Respectfully.

Wade has a stack of trophies on his mantle running nitrous, ass or not.

Hell our beloved McRat is known industry wide as a loud mouth, doesn't change what he's done.

Share the "why it works", please. It sounds like alot of heat.

 

[Stingpuller]

Nos

Thats why I normally don't put my nickle in on nos treads. I have been running nos on things probably before wade was riding his huffy. I have trophy's also that dosn't mean I know or don't know what i'm doing with nos. My thoughts are Pat is fuel limited. With that said if he try's to run nos he will have higher egt's. Thats why when he runs a .070 or .100 as you say he's not seeing a bigger gain. If the fuel is there you should see more power than he is getting( just my thoughts). Wade is not stupid, He just likes to make others fill like they are. He could be of help here if he wanted to be. Jeff

 

[Diesel power]

Wade, You try to impress us with your talk and thats just fine if it makes you fill better. But you try and make it sound like the normal guy needs all this fancy stuff and they don't! Most of the guys here are not trying to run in the 9's with there stuff. I'm a nobody and damn proud of it! You my son are trying to be a somebody:hug: in the worst way. You keep talking this fancy stuff so us little people can learn what we need to do. Just for the record I meet you a TS in 07 when you raced Dockboy. You acted like a ass then, still the same I see. Jeff

Im not trying to impress anyone, my on track results speak for themselves.........

Any way, the stuff you call "fancy" is a way to eliminate varyables and provide consistentcy, and thrue consistency, reliability, and with that comes power and the ease of tuning. Is that not what every beginner and pro needs????
If ya dont get it, i guess you dont get it.......

900-950 bottle psi will drop lower than what 1000-1050 psi going down the track anyday of the week, and why would you encourage pressure drop?
sure it can be done with out the fancy stuff( i've done it for about 10 years now) but why? we all know it's easy to melt pistons, im providing a way around that.
in a non pressure system i used about 2-3 lbs of nitrous with two 0.060 jets per pass and the first pass was ALLWAYS the fastest, untill i got involved with Nano nitrous now EVERY pass is the same, why would you not want that? This allows the use of ALL you nitrous not just a few pounds.

As pressure drops your nitrous leans and the fuel gets richer, that is recipie for metled pistons, high EGT's and loss of power, i have dyno results to back up my cliams on nitrous.

What im encouraging is saftey, and simplicity! But what do i know im an ass....:hug:

 

[Diesel power]

Yeah, but he ran it, and it worked.

OK i ran the same thing and it worked too, but with the same set up and a consistent pressure, i ran 2.5 tenths faster in the 1/4 and got 3 more mph, and was consistent to within .3 thousanths( or traction).

Why go backwards when you can move forward with less pistons being used as paperwieghts????:rofl:

 

[Stingpuller]

Nos

Wade, how can LESS nos cause a melted piston? Less pressure is less nos??? NOS makes its own pressure with temp. If you start out at 950 and use 2 lbs. per pass the bottle cools from use. Now if you start out at higher 1050 use the same 2 lbs. you are telling me it will drop less pressure? Whatever. Jeff

 

[Killerbee]

Wade

Thanks for this thread.

Maybe something can be learned about tuning in nitrous safely

 

[Killerbee]

I want to understand, why is low rpm or low boost spray harmful? What is it doing, beside overdosing oxidizer? Please explain what causes harm with early dosing. I thought this was a good way to spool.