Info: NHRDA Super Street Rule Change

[McRat]

Ken: Proxies are certainly certainly speed and weight rated for our trucks. I drove Proxies the first year at Bonneville, BUT only after I tested them at Standard Testing Lab of Michigan? I put 2200lb load on the tire, and got it up to 215mph and held it for 10 miles. HOWEVER, the guys misunderstood the instructions, and kept running it to failure, which was about 35miles IIRC? and all it did was chunk a small area. At Bonneville, we went over 182mph (GPS) the first year, but had a 175mph tech limit. The tires showed no damage at all.

Proxies are FAR safer than the Drag Radials or Bias Slicks for our kind of weight. How do I know? When we had a blowout on Blue in Utah, I had to put an M&H tire on Blue to get to a gas station. It didn't survive 10 miles at 50 mph.

Now where Proxies MIGHT be dangerous is lack of traction, but that's a driver issue not a tire issue.

 

[juddski88]

I am 100% sure what the best idea is

another Index class?

 

[Dockboy]

another Index class?

Not another index class... ALL index classes

ET (dial)
11.50
10.00
8.50






DONE

 

[juddski88]

I have been reading the arguments on CompD and I have to say, your argument is compelling Greg. I don't have a dog in the fight, I'll race either way. you have my vote for all index classes:thumb:

 

[bigbird]

Not another index class... ALL index classes

ET (dial)
11.50
10.00
8.50






DONE

I kind of like this idea, especially after how nhrda has screwed up the superstreet class. They did an awesome job of chasing real trucks out of the class and turned it into a trailer queen class if you want to be competitive.

 

[McRat]

Index racing was a failure last time.

Rules changed constantly, even between runs or during runs to get the favored entries maximum advantage. And even if they lost, they would change the rules after the race so they could win.

First, nobody involved with the management or operation of the DHRA or NADM should be allowed speak concerning "rules", as they do not know what a rule is.

Both organizations would exempt entries that didn't "qualify" for the Index, yet allow their friends to run who also didn't "qualify". It's a Dodge thing.

The NHRDA seems to have done a far better job than both the DHRA and NADM combined. Indexing was a mega failure, and that lesson should not be forgotten.

BTW - After reading The Internet, I was to blame for the Index Issues with DHRA and NADM. Which is comedy when you consider I thought it was a stupid idea.

For those who are running Index and aren't "insiders", here's what to expect:

You must run faster than 11.xx to qualify for 10.xx index. If you do, you better have a lot of witnesses, did it at least twice, and did it in the correct lane.

If you are an Insider, you don't have to qualify at all. You can even forfeit round One of elimination and continue to race.

If there is a weight minimum, you will be always be underweight, or just accused of it. Weights don't apply to Insiders.

Guys, the NHRDA seems to be doing well, but it just takes a few of the Old Jackasses to poison it.

One season of DHRA/NADM Index will do some serious damage.

 

[Dockboy]

Index racing was a failure last time.

Rules changed constantly, even between runs or during runs to get the favored entries maximum advantage. And even if they lost, they would change the rules after the race so they could win.

First, nobody involved with the management or operation of the DHRA or NADM should be allowed speak concerning "rules", as they do not know what a rule is.

Both organizations would exempt entries that didn't "qualify" for the Index, yet allow their friends to run who also didn't "qualify". It's a Dodge thing.

The NHRDA seems to have done a far better job than both the DHRA and NADM combined. Indexing was a mega failure, and that lesson should not be forgotten.

BTW - After reading The Internet, I was to blame for the Index Issues with DHRA and NADM. Which is comedy when you consider I thought it was a stupid idea.

For those who are running Index and aren't "insiders", here's what to expect:

You must run faster than 11.xx to qualify for 10.xx index. If you do, you better have a lot of witnesses, did it at least twice, and did it in the correct lane.

If you are an Insider, you don't have to qualify at all. You can even forfeit round One of elimination and continue to race.

If there is a weight minimum, you will be always be underweight, or just accused of it. Weights don't apply to Insiders.

Guys, the NHRDA seems to be doing well, but it just takes a few of the Old Jackasses to poison it.

One season of DHRA/NADM Index will do some serious damage.

I see you are still a cry baby Pat! :roflmao:

No rules...just the index

No weight restrictions, no tire restriction. You can run as fast as your safety equipment allows. Pick a class you can be competitive in and run...




Or you could bitch and cry that you are being cheated like you do and just not show up:spit:

 

[McRat]

No rules...just the index

...

Tell us oh wise one and head cheerleader/groupie, exactly how well DID the indexing work?

Tell us about the great successes all over the country when you and your girlfriends started the whole Index Crapathon?

Tell us why you and your girlfriends cried "NO MORE INDEX!!!!" afterwards?

"No Rules Index" is for those who built tube racecars, not for truck owners.

Without weight and body restrictions, all index classes favor cars and minitrucks. Only a fool would use a truck when a car is cheaper to run and faster to boot.

Diesel Pickup Racing is all about making BIG tow vehicles haul ass. Once you allow all bodies and chassis's, it's nothing but a slow ass bracket race. 8.50 ain't fast for a car anymore. 10.0 is a joke for a racecar. Any kid with a bottle and a Mustang runs 10's now.

 

[JoshH]

Tell us oh wise one and head cheerleader/groupie, exactly how well DID the indexing work?

Tell us about the great successes all over the country when you and your girlfriends started the whole Index Crapathon?

Tell us why you and your girlfriends cried "NO MORE INDEX!!!!" afterwards?

"No Rules Index" is for those who built tube racecars, not for truck owners.

Without weight and body restrictions, all index classes favor cars and minitrucks. Only a fool would use a truck when a car is cheaper to run and faster to boot.

Diesel Pickup Racing is all about making BIG tow vehicles haul ass. Once you allow all bodies and chassis's, it's nothing but a slow ass bracket race. 8.50 ain't fast for a car anymore. 10.0 is a joke for a racecar. Any kid with a bottle and a Mustang runs 10's now.

No offense Pat, but what difference does it make? How does indexing favor any chassis/body type over another? I thought diesel racing was about making diesels fast not who could spend the most money and break the most stuff (although that's how it seems now). Maybe I'm wrong...

 

[Dockboy]

Tell us oh wise one and head cheerleader/groupie, exactly how well DID the indexing work?

Tell us about the great successes all over the country when you and your girlfriends started the whole Index Crapathon?

Tell us why you and your girlfriends cried "NO MORE INDEX!!!!" afterwards?

"No Rules Index" is for those who built tube racecars, not for truck owners.

Without weight and body restrictions, all index classes favor cars and minitrucks. Only a fool would use a truck when a car is cheaper to run and faster to boot.

Diesel Pickup Racing is all about making BIG tow vehicles haul ass. Once you allow all bodies and chassis's, it's nothing but a slow ass bracket race. 8.50 ain't fast for a car anymore. 10.0 is a joke for a racecar. Any kid with a bottle and a Mustang runs 10's now.

What do you care? You don't race anymore because everytime you do, your feelings get hurt:rofl:

Diesel racing right now is about getting as much participation as possible. Indexing makes it possible for ANYONE with a diesel to race regardless of how it is built.

If 10.0 is a joke with a diesel...then show up at some races and run it...but I have a feeling that will never happen...One because you can't..Two because everyone is out to get you!!:roflmao:

 

[McRat]

No offense Pat, but what difference does it make? How does indexing favor any chassis/body type over another? I thought diesel racing was about making diesels fast not who could spend the most money and break the most stuff (although that's how it seems now). Maybe I'm wrong...

It only takes about 600rwhp to make a car run 10.0.

Let's say your car wins the season.

What is your title?

10.0 Index Champ, no-spark plug division?

You're not the fastest anything. You just spent your money more wisely than buying a 3/4 ton 4x4 pickup.

When they went 10.50 Index, only 2-3 trucks survived out of 10. The index didn't stop the breakage. But it did give the advantage to lightweights.

Now there are more lightweights out there, there might be enough to keep 9 out of 10 running detuned to 600hp.

 

[McRat]

What do you care? You don't race anymore because everytime you do, your feelings get hurt:rofl:

Diesel racing right now is about getting as much participation as possible. Indexing makes it possible for ANYONE with a diesel to race regardless of how it is built.

If 10.0 is a joke with a diesel...then show up at some races and run it...but I have a feeling that will never happen...One because you can't..Two because everyone is out to get you!!:roflmao:

Most diesel racers are 3/4 ton full sized 4x4 pickups. Any rule that makes those less competitive is going to hurt the sport, not help it.

Let me guess, one of your girls has a low 10 minitruck/car?

Normally any time a DodgeGal suggests a rule it's for a very specific vehicle.

And yes, the quickest diesel cars are in the low 7's, so how competitive is a 10 second car? It's only useful for saying, "I beat a PICKUP!!! WOO-HOO@@!!"

 

[Dockboy]

Most diesel racers are 3/4 ton full sized 4x4 pickups. Any rule that makes those less competitive is going to hurt the sport, not help it.

Let me guess, one of your girls has a low 10 minitruck/car?

Normally any time a DodgeGal suggests a rule it's for a very specific vehicle.

And yes, the quickest diesel cars are in the low 7's, so how competitive is a 10 second car? It's only useful for saying, "I beat a PICKUP!!! WOO-HOO@@!!"

You are a phucking tool Pat!

I forgot that there are 100's of 10 sec diesel "cars" out there that will dominate a 10.0 Index class :doh:

Let me ask you this Einstein... How is a 10 sec truck, running in a 10.0 Index "less competitive"?


Maybe you should field an entry first, then maybe your opinion may mean something. Until then...STFU because all you are is a whinny ex-racer with a bruised ego:baby:

 

[Osubeaver]

I kind of like this idea, especially after how nhrda has screwed up the superstreet class. They did an awesome job of chasing real trucks out of the class and turned it into a trailer queen class if you want to be competitive.

First off, full disclosure: I race a trailer queen in Super Street.


How did they "screw it up?" Did they change the rules midstream and let a bunch of trailer queens in? Or were the rules pretty much the same all the time?

6000lbs, DOT tires for 4x4 and later on until now slicks for 2wd. Seperate weight limits for 2wd and 4wd. Full frame. Oem type trans.

To my knowlege/memory that has been constant.

Why do you think that when somebody, for instance, sees a 6000lb weight minimum they would think racing an 8000lb truck would be a good idea? In a heads up class, horsepower and setup rule. There really isn't a way around that regardless of the lines they draw in the sand. Yes there used to be more "street" trucks in super street. But people started building to the rules, and here we are.

I don't even know how you define a street truck for the purpose of racing rules.

My truck for instance:

License plates....check
Current Registration....check
Insurance....check
Wipers...check
All lights work....check
Radio works.....check
AC....nope
Drive it on the street...nope
Could drive it on the street, could lie and say it's a great idea and dependable form of transportation after beating on it at the track....check

 

[Kat]

Maybe you should field an entry first, then maybe your opinion may mean something. Until then...STFU because all you are is a whinny ex-racer with a bruised ego:baby:

He has an entry

But, he also has a wife that can't travel right now and I'm lucky enough that he is going to stay home and take care of me instead of taking off to a race:hug:

We will be back so don't worry

 

[LBZ]

I know of more than a few trucks that only ran 11's, and even a couple 12's that got bumped to PS because of the battery and or fuel cell thing. It was a dumb rule. Glad to see it's gone. Not that it matters in a class where guys are running 9's, but if they break, your in!

I think E/T can work in SS. Needs to be managed properly though.

 

[JoshH]

It only takes about 600rwhp to make a car run 10.0.

Let's say your car wins the season.

What is your title?

10.0 Index Champ, no-spark plug division?

You're not the fastest anything. You just spent your money more wisely than buying a 3/4 ton 4x4 pickup.

When they went 10.50 Index, only 2-3 trucks survived out of 10. The index didn't stop the breakage. But it did give the advantage to lightweights.

Now there are more lightweights out there, there might be enough to keep 9 out of 10 running detuned to 600hp.

I respectfully disagree. I don't see how a truck that runs 10s is any less likely to win than a diesel repowered car running 10s. FYI, the 11.90 index class is a "no rules" class.

 

[LBZ]

I respectfully disagree. I don't see how a truck that runs 10s is any less likely to win than a diesel repowered car running 10s. FYI, the 11.90 index class is a "no rules" class.

As long as the car meets the weight for the class I agree. If it is half the weight though, then that changes the game as it won't need as much HP to run the same time=possibility of less broken parts. And SS has a min weight so I don't see an issue here with it being a car, truck or a spaceship!

 

[Subman]

Getting back to the Proxies for a second, the Les Schwab tire store would not mount Proxies and put them on my truck because to what they said was the weight and rating restrictions, I never bothered to check it further, so I plead ignorace on that part. As far as index racing, I can see Greg's point, I don't have the specifics on what Pat is talking about, but I think it was more of who was running the show then an actual problem with the concept of index racing.

 

[McRat]

Getting back to the Proxies for a second, the Les Schwab tire store would not mount Proxies and put them on my truck because to what they said was the weight and rating restrictions, I never bothered to check it further, so I plead ignorace on that part. As far as index racing, I can see Greg's point, I don't have the specifics on what Pat is talking about, but I think it was more of who was running the show then an actual problem with the concept of index racing.

The Toyo Proxies I run are 120V rated. That means about 3,000lb load at 149mph sustained. This is higher than virtually all DOT race tires. Like above, I spent a lot of time and money testing these to get 215mph approval, and ran them first year at Bonneville.

Look up 120V tire ratings, print it out, and give it to Schwab.

There was a rumor on CompD that there was no tire that was safe for our trucks to race 1/4 mile with. Funny how rumor sticks to the wall better than actual testing or facts. It was just bullshiit, and the staff and groupies repeated it a lot. Nobody with any real experience with racing tires was saying it. They wanted to ban 1/4 mi diesel racing and that was the best argument they could come up with at the time.

The whole thing revolves around attrition; for those on CompD that means "that dawg won't hunt!", or for those in Rio Linda, "Blowing Up Your Truck".

There is no easy answer. Attrition was a problem when folk were running 12's. It remains a problem as 7 second rockets blast down the track.

Setting a 10.50 Index actually INCREASED the carnage as far as the results sheets read. And making it 1/8th mile didn't fix it either.

If you set the Index at 10.00 some tracks will force everyone to be certified to 8.50. If you set it at 8.50, again, you will get the bump.

So if the WishyWashyDodgy crew wants to Index it again, don't go on a tech limit. Go higher or lower so everyone is on the same page.

And guess what? AFAIK, there is already a 9.90 NHRA series all over the USA that permits both cars and trucks. Those bitching that they need a 10.00 index should start out there first, so they can see what true index racing with cars (not rookies slamming on their brakes at the first trap) is like.

Want to stop attrition? Race rental cars and buy the extra insurance. Nothing else is likely to work based on history.