Newtown Shooting

Cornell

LBZ for life
Sep 11, 2006
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Sorry, I misinterpreted your original post. :eek:

But the main point I was making to Simon was that I only brought up the type of gun point because you mentioned the fact that the news didnt say what kind of gun was used....I interpreted that as a question, and so I was simply responding to that. I could care less what kind of gun was used......

Basically, simon was just being his normal dickbag moron self, and I was defending myself and explaining WHY I posted that.

I could really care less just wanted to clear it up.
 

MACKIN

Smell My Finger...
Aug 14, 2006
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WOW!

Just caught up watched 60 mins. They did a story on this. The interviewed the school nurse who survived.

What I heard is the solution to this problem so it might never ever happen again. Someone at these schools should be trained to in the use of a firearm. If that were the case it could have very seriously stopped if not minimized the killings.

The answer is not less guns it's more! If you watched 60 mins you know exactly what I'm talking about.
 

GMC_2002_Dmax

The Still Master
Well in this day and age we should just tear the Constitution up..........Dems will be coming for all the guns.

We'll see TSA checkpoints at school, 5-18 year old boys & girls strip searched by perverts in TSA uniforms........forget about the 2nd and 4th Amendment......Gone.

I predict a Police State with Dictatorships within 10 years or less.

:eek:
 

duratothemax

<--- slippery roads
Aug 28, 2006
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The only one potential issue I see with "everyone having guns" in this situation, is that you need to make sure everyone who carries is properly trained. The truth is no one knows how they will actually react in a situation like that...you might think and plan it over 1000 times in your head, but until you're actually there, you dont know what you're going to do when you're in panic mode. Ive seen videos of veteran cops in real-world shootouts with criminals unload half a magazine and still not hit their mark from only 20' away....when in training at the range they might be a perfect shot.

The last thing we need in a situation like that is a dozen undertrained overconfident john wayne chuck norris cowboy idiots all pulling out their guns and shooting all at once, before long bullets are flying everywhere and people will be accidentally shooting at eachother.

Like in the movie theater shooting. I mean its freaking dark in there and you cant even see! And with 100 people running around panicking, it would be pretty tricky to get a shot off with a semi-auto pistol (while the bad guy has you completely outgunned, and the bad guy has the element of surprise) without hitting anyone else...and then if you had multiple citizens who were armed and all drew their weapons and started shooting, whats to stop them from shooting at eachother.

Dont get me wrong, I fully support concealed carry and all that, BUT the whole "more guns is better" CAN kind of go both ways IMO. It all depends on training and who the person is who is carrying.
 

Gone Nomad

On a Time Out
Sep 29, 2011
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Like in the movie theater shooting. I mean its freaking dark in there and you cant even see! And with 100 people running around panicking, it would be pretty tricky to get a shot off with a semi-auto pistol (while the bad guy has you completely outgunned, and the bad guy has the element of surprise) without hitting anyone else...and then if you had multiple citizens who were armed and all drew their weapons and started shooting, whats to stop them from shooting at eachother.

Dont get me wrong, I fully support concealed carry and all that, BUT the whole "more guns is better" CAN kind of go both ways IMO. It all depends on training and who the person is who is carrying.
Very true. Also, A typical CCW was at an even bigger disadvantage in this case because the Colorado theater shooter had full body armor. The flip side is that shooters like these are usually the biggest cowards ever (especially the younger ones).It seems to be a fundamental part of the same batshit craziness that makes them commit these acts. They usually run away and kill themselves at the first sign of armed confrontation. That's what happened in the recent Oregon mall shooting. The CCW holder drew on, but didn't even have to take a shot at the gunman, who then went to secluded area and killed himself. The Sandy Hook shooter did the exact same thing, as soon as the police arrived in the school, but were not yet in a position to engage the shooter. There's a key piece of insight here. When these batshit nutcases "snap" an commit these acts, the one thing they seem to have in common besides being smart, but troubled, young white men, is they sure cannot take even the possibility of having to take some of what they were dishing out.

The Colorado shooter may have been somewhat different though, since he didn't actually end his rampage with suicide. Like Arizona shooter Jared Loughner, he was also somewhat older... mid-20s... so he seems to be more like the Norwegian killer Breivik, who was much older (in his early 30s). All of these shooters did not end their spree with a suicide. So there seems to be at least two different variations. I think the younger ones are acting more out of an short-term emotional condition - in effect, they are acting out something that's almost like a long-term temper tantrum, but unfortunately using deadly weapons; whereas the older ones, who also seem to have spend much more time and effort planning their heinous acts, are also batshit crazy, but also with a much bigger component of what is clinically referred to as psychopathy (or more commonly called, just plain evil).
 
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GMC_2002_Dmax

The Still Master
My only comment is this, when was it that an armed citizen became a victim ???

When was it that any criminal successfully robbed a gun store ???

You see Police get shot all the time because they are trained to shoot only as a last resort, they have to think about it, not react to it like a citizen will.

We have had a home invasion in CT, we have had a horrific shooting in CT.

If gun laws worked then Chicago, Detroit, NYC, LA, ect would all be really safe cities...........they are the highest crime cities.

Statistically criminals want to go into areas where private gun ownership is scarce, why, because people who are un-armed are easy targets.

I would rather be in a theatre with armed citizens then with a bunch of citizens armed with cell phones dialing 911...........we would all be dead by the time the cops get there.

It would take 20 minutes to get a State Cop to me if I called 911, in that time my wife and daughter would be raped, I would be dead, and that would not be good.

In the same time as calling 911 I could empty my clip, reload and have whoever was attempting to do me and my family harm ready for the black bag/toe tag.
 

jmaz268

Lead from the Front
May 20, 2010
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My only comment is this, when was it that an armed citizen became a victim ???

When was it that any criminal successfully robbed a gun store ???

You see Police get shot all the time because they are trained to shoot only as a last resort, they have to think about it, not react to it like a citizen will.

We have had a home invasion in CT, we have had a horrific shooting in CT.

If gun laws worked then Chicago, Detroit, NYC, LA, ect would all be really safe cities...........they are the highest crime cities.

Statistically criminals want to go into areas where private gun ownership is scarce, why, because people who are un-armed are easy targets.

I would rather be in a theatre with armed citizens then with a bunch of citizens armed with cell phones dialing 911...........we would all be dead by the time the cops get there.

It would take 20 minutes to get a State Cop to me if I called 911, in that time my wife and daughter would be raped, I would be dead, and that would not be good.

In the same time as calling 911 I could empty my clip, reload and have whoever was attempting to do me and my family harm ready for the black bag/toe tag.

ummmm chicago until the past few years was a ZERO handgun city, except LEO and Military....aka you couldn't even own one.

IL doesn't have CCW, the law was just turned over a week or so ago, and the legistlators have 180 to make CCW legal in IL.

And 10 bucks says chicago will stay a retarded town and very little gun rights.

Or am I misreading what you are saying.
 

Gone Nomad

On a Time Out
Sep 29, 2011
72
0
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We'll see TSA checkpoints at school, 5-18 year old boys & girls strip searched by perverts in TSA uniforms........forget about the 2nd and 4th Amendment......Gone.
Providing a more concentrated mass of bodies waiting to pass through the checkpoints, meaning that batshit crazy maniacs like the Sandy Hook shooter won't even have to go room to room... If the checkpoint is at an entrance (as they usually are in courthouses), the Sandy Hook shooter wouldn't have had to break glass to force entry....
 

GMC_2002_Dmax

The Still Master
ummmm chicago until the past few years was a ZERO handgun city, except LEO and Military....aka you couldn't even own one.

IL doesn't have CCW, the law was just turned over a week or so ago, and the legistlators have 180 to make CCW legal in IL.

And 10 bucks says chicago will stay a retarded town and very little gun rights.

Or am I misreading what you are saying.

BINGO !!!!!

The less restrictive the laws the less the crime rate with gun is.

The more restrictive the laws the more crimes committed with guns.

This is not about gun ownership, its about destroying our rights and gutting the Constitution........its all part of the plan, just like Fast and Furious was supposed to make us outraged and didn't work because we found out that our own Government was behind the lies !!!
 

Dozerboy

Well-known member
Jun 23, 2009
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So what we should all go to gun boot camp maybe right next to the SEAL team? The point of more guns isn't so a dozen undertrained overconfident john wayne chuck norris cowboy idiots can go blow the hell out of a badguy. Its to detour some nut job from walking into a place and killing people. Most people have self preservation instincts no matter how crazy. Like the movie theater shooting he drove out of his way to an area where people where less likely to have guns. And like at Virginia tech during these situation when the gunman is confronted by someone else with a gun they kill themselves.
I know your just saying that “more guns is better” might not be the case. It is though. Does that mean it’s the be all to end all mass shootings? NO.


Damn was I that slow... this was in reply to Bens post
 

Cornell

LBZ for life
Sep 11, 2006
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So what we should all go to gun boot camp maybe right next to the SEAL team? The point of more guns isn't so a dozen undertrained overconfident john wayne chuck norris cowboy idiots can go blow the hell out of a badguy. Its to detour some nut job from walking into a place and killing people. Most people have self preservation instincts no matter how crazy. Like the movie theater shooting he drove out of his way to an area where people where less likely to have guns. And like at Virginia tech during these situation when the gunman is confronted by someone else with a gun they kill themselves.
I know your just saying that “more guns is better” might not be the case. It is though. Does that mean it’s the be all to end all mass shootings? NO.


Damn was I that slow... this was in reply to Bens post


Exactly, are you going to start shooting if you see a guy open carrying in public? Doubtful. These shameful excuses for human beings are going to go somewhere where they can shoot people that cannot defend themselves.

One of my friends has an art studio in Minneapolis. He was very anti-gun until a friend of his was mugged by a group of people and got the crap beat out of him. He couldn't stand the idea of not being able to protect himself and his girlfriend by where he worked so he went and got his conceal and carry permit last week and bought himself 2 handguns. Turns out he also really enjoys shooting for sport.
 

MACKIN

Smell My Finger...
Aug 14, 2006
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Correct DB Ben is off the wall. The first thing I said was TRAINED. That's if like I said there was to be a "hired gun " at a public place soley for protecting the occupants. Say a school or a movie theature but if more people were to get a permit in order to legally carry and properly train yourself for protection it would make some scum think twice about committing a crime.

Its terrible to think like this but after Friday and after Christmas break wait and see what the politicians say what the answer will be!
 

btfarm

you know
Nov 25, 2010
387
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Sandwich, Illinois
Interesting take from Roger Ebert in Sun Times

Borrowed from another source:

Some say that the wall-to-wall coverage of the event on the various 24-hour news outlets is not helping. Famed film critic Roger Ebert wrote about the killings on his blog this past weekend. The vital piece from Ebert’s post was actually something he wrote almost a decade back.

Here is the relevant excerpt from Roger Ebert’s 2003 review of “Elephant.”

Let me tell you a story. The day after Columbine, I was interviewed for the Tom Brokaw news program. The reporter had been assigned a theory and was seeking sound bites to support it. “Wouldn’t you say,” she asked, “that killings like this are influenced by violent movies?” No, I said, I wouldn’t say that. “But what about ‘Basketball Diaries’?” she asked. “Doesn’t that have a scene of a boy walking into a school with a machine gun?” The obscure 1995 Leonardo Di Caprio movie did indeed have a brief fantasy scene of that nature, I said, but the movie failed at the box office (it grossed only $2.5 million), and it’s unlikely the Columbine killers saw it.

The reporter looked disappointed, so I offered her my theory. “Events like this,” I said, “if they are influenced by anything, are influenced by news programs like your own. When an unbalanced kid walks into a school and starts shooting, it becomes a major media event. Cable news drops ordinary programming and goes around the clock with it. The story is assigned a logo and a theme song; these two kids were packaged as the Trench Coat Mafia. The message is clear to other disturbed kids around the country: If I shoot up my school, I can be famous. The TV will talk about nothing else but me. Experts will try to figure out what I was thinking. The kids and teachers at school will see they shouldn’t have messed with me. I’ll go out in a blaze of glory.”


In short, I said, events like Columbine are influenced far less by violent movies than by CNN, the NBC Nightly News and all the other news media, who glorify the killers in the guise of “explaining” them. I commended the policy at the Sun-Times, where our editor said the paper would no longer feature school killings on Page 1. The reporter thanked me and turned off the camera. Of course the interview was never used. They found plenty of talking heads to condemn violent movies, and everybody was happy.

Ebert closed this Saturday’s post with:

“I gather my point is what goes around, comes around.”

Is the news media culpable? Or does the blame belong on the violence in video games? Or, asJamie Foxx declared:

“We cannot turn our back and say that violence in films or anything that we do doesn’t have a sort of influence, it does.”

Join the conversation in the comments section and take our Blaze poll on the subject.

(Use this link to this article to take the poll)

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/coul...gure-says-yes/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just think, only a few days later the Sandy Hook school shooting took place. How many, like me, would like to say that the media coverage of the Clackamas Mall shooting had an influence on the Sandy Hook shooting?
 

adeso

wait, what?
May 30, 2011
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Every American has a right to protect their home and person, when you get into schools you are around other peoples kids, I think if a teacher wants to CCW, they should let them, but the school should pay for a class (something like a weeklong very basic LEO class) and have secure lockups. Wouldn't be that hard to get a secure system setup. While it is your right to protect your family as you see fit, I think is reasonable to say that at a school are guarding other peoples kids and should be trained to do so
 

btfarm

you know
Nov 25, 2010
387
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Sandwich, Illinois
Every school should have 2 officials that are extensively trained and carrying with yearly requalification. Principal, vice principal, dean, whoever. If they don't have the personnel to qualify then LEOs should be required in their place. There must be a minimum number present (2 or ?) at all times.
 

lts1ow

Needs moar PAH!
May 14, 2012
1,598
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Every school should have 2 officials that are extensively trained and carrying with yearly requalification. Principal, vice principal, dean, whoever. If they don't have the personnel to qualify then LEOs should be required in their place. There must be a minimum number present (2 or ?) at all times.

And just to play devil's advocate, but what happens if one of those guys snaps or has a breakdown?
 

MACKIN

Smell My Finger...
Aug 14, 2006
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I don't want to take away from the thread any longer. I'll explain the forum settings in a pm.

Your problem is the skin you have chosen or the back ground. If you choose the default one the pages are white with blue accents. That's the one he is using I assume and for some reason he has chosen black for font color.

So you say you're using default but you cannot be for your skin choice in the lower left hand corner.