More air or more fuel????

dspridgen

New member
Oct 7, 2009
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I am at a standstill and can't decide where to go after a trans build. I know that you really need both fuel and air to make big power numbers, but unfortunately
I cannot afford dual fuels or modified and a new turbo at one time. Which one do you guys think i should start with and see the most power gains from. THis is my daily driver, i never tow over 4000lbs, and i am open to any suggestions. I am really looking for a good E.t. and mph. THANKS!!!! :thumb:
 

mb1

Member
Nov 15, 2009
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Edmonton, Alberta
Go with air first. You can make enough power to test your rods with stock fuel.

Dual fuelers on a stock turbo and you're going to be getting real hot, and not much gains IMO.
 

dspridgen

New member
Oct 7, 2009
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Any guesses on horsepower or track times with an upgraded turbo? Im think about the Bullseye with the Bat Mo Wheel. What you guys think?
 

ZeroGravity58

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2008
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If your interested a have my 4202 forsale i will work out a smokin deal with you i just need it gone. i never towed more then 2000LBS but it wasnt to bad, spooled pretty good an a single stock CP3. I had a LB7 only thing you would need is a new cold side pipe and y bridge to clear the 5" intake.
 

ChevyDieselLLY

Whats A Budget???
Apr 1, 2008
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Air I had dual pumps with a stock turbo and there wasn't a big gain. Go with a nice size single or you could twin off ur stock turbo. Just depends what you want to spend
 

BlkMax

Member
Sep 1, 2008
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Wasilla, AK
How far do you want to go?

How much $$ are you going to spend?

If you have the trans, and now you want more are you willing to do a build on the motor?

Ask yourself that, and then make the decision.

I have an HTT 66/16/71 now and am getting a set of Trent's triples to go on top of the HTT. I also have a mod II CP3. I have more than enough fuel to bend rods-I think (I also have a set of rods in the shop ready to go in, and am prepared to build the motor if the trips bend the stockers).

More air is better on a stock bottom end than more fuel IMOP. Tuning is a BIG part of this....

Others can chime in, but I think for a DD, more air is better than more fuel.

I say this and I have 2 other vehicles I can drive while my truck is down being fixed.
 

jmaz268

Lead from the Front
May 20, 2010
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How far do you want to go?

How much $$ are you going to spend?

If you have the trans, and now you want more are you willing to do a build on the motor?

Ask yourself that, and then make the decision.

I have an HTT 66/16/71 now and am getting a set of Trent's triples to go on top of the HTT. I also have a mod II CP3. I have more than enough fuel to bend rods-I think (I also have a set of rods in the shop ready to go in, and am prepared to build the motor if the trips bend the stockers).

More air is better on a stock bottom end than more fuel IMOP. Tuning is a BIG part of this....

Others can chime in, but I think for a DD, more air is better than more fuel.

I say this and I have 2 other vehicles I can drive while my truck is down being fixed.


I agree and have the same turbo with no fuel mods...my best on normal cover on the one time at the track was a 12.18....

I've since added a race cover and billet wheel and done Jenny Craig on the truck.

Hunting for 11s now.
 

dspridgen

New member
Oct 7, 2009
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Air I had dual pumps with a stock turbo and there wasn't a big gain. Go with a nice size single or you could twin off ur stock turbo. Just depends what you want to spend

I think i used to see your truck at dustins old shop all the time. He said it was awsome with those twins, but im not sure that anyone local has enough experince with them to venture that far. I guess it will be a new single turbo!
 

othrgrl

Diesel Addiction Owner
Mar 10, 2008
2,151
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Wilmington NC
www.mydieseladdiction.com
Stock turbo is good for low 500's hp, and 13's flat. Some are better some not. Turbo will get you ballpark 600, and mid12's.

Stock turbo is easily good for 540+ rwhp and mid 12s. With some airflow and fuel upgrades we've done over 600 rwhp on an LLY with a stock turbo on Dunbar's lie detector.

Dual fuelers doesn't mean high EGTs if the tuning is properly adjusted for them. It will mean that you can get any pressure you command and get the same quantity of fuel using a lower PW and higher pressure, which will give you a little more power. Dual fuelers, stock LBZ intake, and exhaust did 590 rwhp on an LLY on Dunbar's dyno with no higher EGTs than what a 540 rwhp race tune would on the same truck without the duals.

When you get to the mid 500 rwhp mark in these trucks there are really 3 things that IMO need done to push it a whole lot further:
  • Air - turbo or nitrous
  • Fuel quantity - dual or modded CP3
  • Fuel delivery - bigger injectors

If you add a turbo or nitrous without the CP3(s) you will run out of fuel to burn somewhere around 600 rwhp.

If you add fuel quantity/pressure (pressure is a result of quantity supplied compared to quantity used) without the turbo(s)/nitrous you will run out of air to burn it somewhere around 600 rwhp.

If you upgrade the turbo(s) and CP3(s) you will have plenty of air and fuel but to safely deliver the fuel quantity needed to get the full potential you will need bigger injectors.

From a power standpoint I would do them in the order listed above; but from a safety standpoint (keeping the stock motor together) I would do turbo, injectors, then CP3. With the turbo and CP3 it is too easy to crank it up with ridiculous PW and timing on stock injectors. With turbo and injectors you won't have the fuel quantity to do damage, but your PW and timing can be brought way back, then after upgrading the CP3 you can slowly add quantity in a more safe manner.
 

dspridgen

New member
Oct 7, 2009
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Stock turbo is easily good for 540+ rwhp and mid 12s. With some airflow and fuel upgrades we've done over 600 rwhp on an LLY with a stock turbo on Dunbar's lie detector.

Dual fuelers doesn't mean high EGTs if the tuning is properly adjusted for them. It will mean that you can get any pressure you command and get the same quantity of fuel using a lower PW and higher pressure, which will give you a little more power. Dual fuelers, stock LBZ intake, and exhaust did 590 rwhp on an LLY on Dunbar's dyno with no higher EGTs than what a 540 rwhp race tune would on the same truck without the duals.

When you get to the mid 500 rwhp mark in these trucks there are really 3 things that IMO need done to push it a whole lot further:
  • Air - turbo or nitrous
  • Fuel quantity - dual or modded CP3
  • Fuel delivery - bigger injectors

If you add a turbo or nitrous without the CP3(s) you will run out of fuel to burn somewhere around 600 rwhp.

If you add fuel quantity/pressure (pressure is a result of quantity supplied compared to quantity used) without the turbo(s)/nitrous you will run out of air to burn it somewhere around 600 rwhp.

If you upgrade the turbo(s) and CP3(s) you will have plenty of air and fuel but to safely deliver the fuel quantity needed to get the full potential you will need bigger injectors.

From a power standpoint I would do them in the order listed above; but from a safety standpoint (keeping the stock motor together) I would do turbo, injectors, then CP3. With the turbo and CP3 it is too easy to crank it up with ridiculous PW and timing on stock injectors. With turbo and injectors you won't have the fuel quantity to do damage, but your PW and timing can be brought way back, then after upgrading the CP3 you can slowly add quantity in a more safe manner.

And what do you know about tuning?!?!? JK i guess we can go ahead and order the bullseye then!!
 

McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
11,249
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Norco CA
www.mcratracing.com
It's interesting how well the Dmax is "balanced" from the factory. The charger matches the max fuel delivery pretty well. Almost like they WANTED you to tune it up.

When in doubt, get blown. Adding more fuel to a stock charger doesn't do much.

Turbo selection depends on what your long term goals are. If you anticipate going with twins at some point, stick with a 66 charger at first, then add the fatty later. If you are sticking with a single, go 3.0", like at GT4202 or S475.

If you want to sled pull and be competitive, you need to get a charger to match the rules, which change all the time.

Adding a ported fuel pressure regulator and 15psi lift pump will give you a cheap boost in HP with the bigger chargers.
 

dspridgen

New member
Oct 7, 2009
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It's interesting how well the Dmax is "balanced" from the factory. The charger matches the max fuel delivery pretty well. Almost like they WANTED you to tune it up.

When in doubt, get blown. Adding more fuel to a stock charger doesn't do much.

Turbo selection depends on what your long term goals are. If you anticipate going with twins at some point, stick with a 66 charger at first, then add the fatty later. If you are sticking with a single, go 3.0", like at GT4202 or S475.

If you want to sled pull and be competitive, you need to get a charger to match the rules, which change all the time.

Adding a ported fuel pressure regulator and 15psi lift pump will give you a cheap boost in HP with the bigger chargers.

I never plan on doing any type of sled pulling, so i have no rules. I do not see twins in my near future beacuse of the cost, and my main goal is to beat the s*** out of my good friends Ford Lightning that has minor bolt ons. I am mostly going to be enjoying it on the street and the eight mile.
 

ChevyDieselLLY

Whats A Budget???
Apr 1, 2008
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Yea I'm sure that was my truck it was there from the first day Dustin moved into the shop until March this year. Twins were awesome no doubt but I do love my 472. Do a turbo with a T4 so if later u want yo upgrade you don't have to replace everything.
 

Drholliday

Member
May 28, 2008
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Gresham, OR
The S475 is fun on my LBZ, did great with stock fueling too. If it was only going to be a street truck the standard S475 with a race cover is a little laggy from some rolling starts.

I should be trying out a new wheel in the charger pretty soon though, I'll let you know how that goes.
 

Colt

New member
Jul 23, 2010
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Seems an internally balanced crank from SoCal and Rods are what it needs to make the base strong. ARP studs up and down and strong valve train to top it off. It seems like if you go to 600 hp it will go way over at a point that you put 2 fuelers or NO2 it to kill some time when you want a sudden all out run like it seems to happen. It seems that once it goes over 1k hp they will break something just seems like many have it happen some have not yet in that power level. The cost to get it in a hi power fast truck is just a cost few can spend all at once so things get run and break at different levels of components stock/custom mix some work alright but will give up when put to a over pressure from 2 of this and 3 of that and tuning galore. Big money habit running this Dmax in the 10/11 sec. even. I read to try and get the idea of all the costs and it is just high no way around. Hang in there guys it's another all out season I really like to watch and read it as it goes.