Michelin Tweel

[durallymax]

I picked up our set of Tweel's today for our Cat 262C2 Skid Steer.

We have had too many headaches with pneumatic tires due to punctures. Whether its a simple or large one, it happens too often. The turning point on this machine was when one of the workers stabbed the bale spears through the front two tires which still had over 75% tread.

We knew solid/solid flex type tires were not the answer either due to their rough ride and poor impact resistance. We have too many instances where they ram into a stub wall or curb.

I stumbled across the Tweel and thought it would maybe be the perfect fit. i had many doubts, but it seems to be proving me wrong.

I just got them on today so short of just playing with them I don't have much feedback. The one thing I really was curious on was their supposed resistance to "hopping/dancing" when turning with the skid steer. They really do eliminate this, all the way up from 0-12mph turning on a complete dime it didn't hop or skid nor did it do it on fast cornering either. The ride is interesting to describe. You can tell you are not riding on pnuematics as it is a slightly firmer ride, but nowhere near a solid tire ride. The large open spaced tread blocks may contribute to some of the ride qualities. The more you load the Tweel's up, the better they seem to ride though. So far traction seems excellent even on ice. Hopefully these do end up working out. They are a big upfront investement but are retreadable.

Heres a picture of ours followed by a video from Michelin.

[YOUTUBE]dRKWlhTGO6M[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Combine Pilot]

I like the idea of those. Definitely interested in how they hold up over time.

 

[durallymax]

They've been working on perfecting them since 1995. Just released these as the first commercially available version last fall. Otherwise they had only been on some robots and military vehicles.

The poly spokes are very soft. You can wiggle them around with your fingers quite a bit. pretty interesting how everything works.

 

[rms2012]

When you say big upfront investment, how big is that?

 

[Cornell]

What about filling them up with mud, etc?

 

[blk smoke lb7]

I think they are very cool but id like to see if they still hold their shap after 3 or 4 years of water and sewer or road work just seams like they would start to lay over after alot of use but i do like how they are like real tires and dare i say ride a little better.Would be cool to see what they are like after a year of hard work.

 

[durallymax]

When you say big upfront investment, how big is that?

I don't have an exact price to give you as they haven't really set the pricing in stone yet. Once they get everything completely released and such they are figuring just north of 1k.

For comparison a good bias ply pneumatic tire in that size is $250-350. Michelin's bibsteel radials are just under $500. A solid/solidflex style tire is about $700-800ish.

The important thing to note though is that unlike most solid tires, the Tweel is retreadable for less than a new cheap tire.

What about filling them up with mud, etc?

They do not allow a buildup to form as they are constantly flexing. The poly spokes are very soft. You can flex them very far just with your fingers.

 

[durallymax]

I think they are very cool but id like to see if they still hold their shap after 3 or 4 years of water and sewer or road work just seams like they would start to lay over after alot of use but i do like how they are like real tires and dare i say ride a little better.Would be cool to see what they are like after a year of hard work.

I know they have been working on them since 1995 but am still curious to see how they hold up. With the tech they have today when it comes to Poly I wouldn't be surprised if they have a way to make them run for quite awhile.

They ride about the same as an air tire when empty. Loaded they are a little nicer. When turning though they are 100 times nicer than an air tire.

 

[durallymax]

[YOUTUBE]pcdmH_hVWBY[/YOUTUBE]

 

[blk smoke lb7]

I love stuff like this and the hubless wheel:thumb:

 

[durallymax]

I think its neat how it still runs fine after driving over a mine.

 

[Dozerboy]

We had pretty good luck with solidflex tires. We used them for demo mostly and would try to run regular tires for dirt work. No winter use since this was in Socal. The only hop we ever saw was during hard cutting when you really loaded them up and had a lot of traction. Solid tires just suck. From a demo aspect I would only worry about tearing spokes out with rebar or debris getting in there. Freezing might be and a little bit of an issue too. You know what wet snow can do when it gets packed in and freezes.

 

[durallymax]

Got in a set of Michelin's Bibsteel All Terrain's this week. Weren't ready to buy another set of Tweel's yet and wanted to see how these performed. Being steel belted radials they are more resistant to punctures to begin with. Most all other SSL tires are Bias ply. These were a little more than the Firestone Duraforce DT's but were half as much as the Tweels. We never got very good life out of the Firestones. Maybe 600hrs. The Michelins start with a little more tread and the Radial construction should help them run at least twice as long. With wheel loader tires I was always told 3-4 times the life with Radials over Bias and that was what the prices reflected as well. Tractor tires seem to wear at least two to three times as long in addition to other benefits.

If these last as long as I am hoping they should have decent tread for trade in time. These will be going on our 242B3 that runs in the barn, pushes up feed, scrapes manure, beds freestalls, jumps center alley curbs, moves bales, etc. I did disable the 2 speed on this machine however which should help some with the tire life. Our 242B3 for feeding will need tires next winter. By then we should know if we want another set of the Tweels or not I am thinking. Then we would just take the tires from the new machines and put them on the trade-in's and keep that rotation going. I do not know if we will want three sets of the Tweels though due to the fact we may trade down a size on the barn machine to a 226 which runs 10" tires and they do not make the Tweels in that size yet.

I also attached a picture of the Tweels after 150hrs worth of use. I made sure to not wash them in that amount of time. In the deep snow and mud they keep themselves cleaned out well and do not allow much buildup at all. I forgot to put a gauge to them when new, however Michelin claims 30/32" original tread depth. At this time they measure 29/32". If they continue this trend in theory we should easily see over 3,000hrs worth of life in the original tread. We typically run SSL tires down until the center is smooth. With the Tweels being flat across though it will allow slightly longer wear. I would not expect the retread material to last as long, however I do not know if Michelin will be supplied a pre-mold or custom mold tread or if they will be having people use an off the shelf retread material.

Michelin Bibsteel All Terrain 305/70R16.5

Tweels after 150hrs. Rear squats due to how heavy the 262C2 is in the rear with no attachment.

 

[catman3126]

wonder how they do in extrme cold like -50 in alaska or canada?

 

[durallymax]

Can't say. It would be interesting to know though.

 

[durallymax]

I got some answers from Tweel on the life of the poly "casing".

They are working on their legal warranty right now, but they will essentially be covering it for the initial tread life.

They poly is rated for UV exposure to 30 years and millions of load cycles. It is rated to operate in temperatures ranging from -40*F to 266*F.

The Tweel can operate with many of the spokes damaged. There is not immediate fail if any one of them breaks. Diminishing performance will be noticed with each injury the Tweel sustains until it is decided to pull it out of service, but it will continue to operate with a lot of damage.

Making sure to get them retreaded before the tread is completely smooth is important as well to avoid hitting the steel belting.

He would not give any info on how soon other sizes will be available other than they are planning on adding more in the near future.

 

[arneson]

First issue is the cat skidsteer. Man i didnt have good luck with those machines. Like there excavators but there skidsteers were alot rougher, didnt run as smooth and couldn't keep up hauling rocks for our retaining walls. Guess it depends on what jobs u ask it to do.

As for those tires, as Cornell said, do u have any results from working is straight dirt, or mud? I cant really believe they would work great in those conditons where mud would go into the tire and create a drag or slow down the machine. On hard pavement i can see ride benefits but hauling how does it do with a load? When we go into quarrys we pick up 3-5k lbs and would like to hear how these haul weight.

 

[durallymax]

First issue is the cat skidsteer. Man i didnt have good luck with those machines. Like there excavators but there skidsteers were alot rougher, didnt run as smooth and couldn't keep up hauling rocks for our retaining walls. Guess it depends on what jobs u ask it to do.

As for those tires, as Cornell said, do u have any results from working is straight dirt, or mud? I cant really believe they would work great in those conditons where mud would go into the tire and create a drag or slow down the machine. On hard pavement i can see ride benefits but hauling how does it do with a load? When we go into quarrys we pick up 3-5k lbs and would like to hear how these haul weight.

We used to run NH machines, these are a big step up. Bobcat would've been another option, dealer turned us off. Support on the Cat's is a big point. I won't say I like them for everything, but the support is great. Yesterday they stopped out with some engineers to find out how they could make them better for the Ag market. Haven't had any issues with any of the three either. Delay in the 262C2 is the main complaint. It's tolerable some days, then other days it seems like it hates you. They have another update coming for it.

We spend a lot of time in mud with these. They do fine, the mud inside them is not an issue, it is forced out right away. The image I posted is after spending a lot of time in mud. As for sitting in 10" of mud and never leaving, that I couldn't tell you.

The ride benefits are better as you load them up. They are rated to 4400lbs each so you would be fine with them. They would really ride nice hauling in quarries I would think. We never have big loads except for moving bales or the little bit of gravel work we do so the ride is not always super smooth. When you do have them loaded down though they are very smooth.

We've put another 150hrs on them (300 total) and they are still at 29/32" tread. New they are 30/32".

 

[arneson]

Hmmm. I may have to look into these on our 2 bigger machines. We spend alot of time in quarries and in dirt/mud and also do tons of snow removal. Least maybe see what they run, how many hrs do u run your machine a yr? Or since the tires were put on?

 

[durallymax]

Hmmm. I may have to look into these on our 2 bigger machines. We spend alot of time in quarries and in dirt/mud and also do tons of snow removal. Least maybe see what they run, how many hrs do u run your machine a yr? Or since the tires were put on?

That machine will get 1,200-1,400 per year, the other two main ones average 1000 each.

We have 300hrs on the Tweels now.