Melting pistons.

TrentNell

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i can buy that, but IMO if your not spraying most if not ALL your fuel in BTDC your wasting HP.
waisting HP maybe , but I would have too think cylinder pressure would be much higher than our current method of centering it around TDC . As Josh said , Fingers prob has the most data on the subject .
 

TrentNell

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CP makes HP...:hug:

That we know , it also lifts heads , bends rods , and cracks pistons . finding the happy medium is the ticket . and drawing the line between what will work on a all out race built clear down to a stock motor truck running big power .
 

JoshH

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1 question that will honestly help decide whether i think your theroy is plausible ........ how far away ( aproximate measurement) from the TDC is the piston when the injection cycle starts @ say 30* timing ? which is not a far fetched #
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TrentNell

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Damn your good Josh ! :D @ .330 i cant cant imagine any of the spray making it out of the bowl but i have never seen a spray pattern to one of our injectors either ? I can say the piston is alot closer than i figured it would be !
 

JOHNBOY

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Sure,

every injection cycle starts as follows

timing-duration-fuel pressure

timing is when the event starts.

duration is how long the event last's

Pressure is how much pressure is is behind the fuel stream at the end of the event.

this is why i say that they can all affect each other, well im not the only one, but this i learned from bosch.

too high of a rail PSI and you will get much more advanced timing, and a longer duration, which could lead to lower RP than what started the cycle.

too much duration will lower RP and the atomization of the fuel.

Did that help any?

Your Assumming that the pressure is constant throught out the fuel system. Highly doubtful it is. The body itself causes enough restriction the pressure is inevitable



1 question that will honestly help decide whether i think your theroy is plausible ........ how far away ( aproximate measurement) from the TDC is the piston when the injection cycle starts @ say 30* timing ? which is not a far fetched #
I drew the crank, rod, piston, and cylinder head with injector up years ago. I see if i can dig up some screen shot. I had the injection stream and everything drawn in. pretty neat stuff.

i can buy that, but IMO if your not spraying most if not ALL your fuel in BTDC your wasting HP.
I call BS. Here Very few people have injectos capable of that. Using the canned tuning you are your not even coming close. To pull that off you would need to be able to get the fuel so fast with so little timing or the pressure would sky rocket and platue to early. I run injectors bigger than 99% of CR guys do and I can not pull that off.

CP makes HP...:hug:

Wrong CP = torque. But only if you peak cylinder pressure happens in the correct realationship to TDC for the given RPM. If it happens to early it will fight the up travel of the piston BTDC. That causes huge cylinder pressure and torque loss.
HP is a function of Torque and RPM.
 
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Accelerator

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Damn your good Josh ! :D @ .330 i cant cant imagine any of the spray making it out of the bowl but i have never seen a spray pattern to one of our injectors either ? I can say the piston is alot closer than i figured it would be !

yea a lot closer..:D
 

TrentNell

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What is it at 25*?
there is a point were the piston sits still as the crank continues to turn and then the piston starts to travel downward ,I would really be curious as to when that happens in Crank angle deg , I know it is at TDC , just dont know how long that event is , also the profile of the cam should be considered as well........when considering cylinder pressure .
 
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Accelerator

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Your Assumming that the pressure is constant throught out the fuel system. Highly doubtful it is. The body itself causes enough restriction the pressure is inevitable




I drew the crank, rod, piston, and cylinder head with injector up years ago. I see if i can dig up some screen shot. I had the injection stream and everything drawn in. pretty neat stuff.


I call BS. Here Very few people have injectos capable of that. Using the canned tuning you are your not even coming close. To pull that off you would need to be able to get the fuel so fast with so little timing or the pressure would sky rocket and platue to early. I run injectors bigger than 99% of CR guys do and I can not pull that off. every 03-04dodge CR opperates that way..



Wrong CP = torque. But only if you peak cylinder pressure happens in the correct realationship to TDC for the given RPM. If it happens to early it will fight the up travel of the piston BTDC. That causes huge cylinder pressure and torque loss.
HP is a function of Torque and RPM.
that i understand but TQ x RPM makes HP.....enough said, besides i said the same thing as you too, months ago in a thread where fingers said i was wrong due to his calculations.
 
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JOHNBOY

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Damn your good Josh ! :D @ .330 i cant cant imagine any of the spray making it out of the bowl but i have never seen a spray pattern to one of our injectors either ? I can say the piston is alot closer than i figured it would be !

But remeber how slight the injection angle is (156*). That means the spray from the injector is only 12* off the head. I have in my notes that with a .010 up piston, "A" gaskets and a deliped LB7 piston that 28* is the break out point. With a stock LB7 piston 25*. Going to a 145* injector helps a ton. But who would do that.:baby:
 

Accelerator

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there is a point were the piston sits still as the crank continues to turn and then the piston starts to travel downward ,I would really be curious as to when that happens in Crank angle deg , I know it is at TDC , just dont know how long that event is , also the profile of the cam should be considered as well........when considering cylinder pressure .

thats where degreeing a cam comes into play.. and all the other junk we should consider..:D
 

Fingers

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i can buy that, but IMO if your not spraying most if not ALL your fuel in BTDC your wasting HP.

That is way off base. Any burn prior to TDC is working against you. Period. Dumping all your fuel BTDC when your crank angle duration is 30*-60* just doesn't make sense.

However, we suffer some burn prior to TDC to keep the meat of our burn in the sweet spot of the stroke. When and how much vary with the pulse duration and the RPM.

But, what do I know.....
 

Accelerator

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But remeber how slight the injection angle is (156*). That means the spray from the injector is only 12* off the head. I have in my notes that with a .010 up piston, "A" gaskets and a deliped LB7 piston that 28* is the break out point. With a stock LB7 piston 25*. Going to a 145* injector helps a ton. But who would do that.:baby:

Thats the stuff that makes a good engine build there john..
 

JOHNBOY

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that i understand but TQ x RPM makes HP.....enough said, besides i said the same thing as you too, months ago in a thread where fingers said i was wrong due to his calculations.
Wade you can read. Can't you? I posted
HP is a function of Torque and RPM.

I call BS on every Dodge CR operates that way. I have Star scanned a 03 with PPE tuning it does not happen that way. It is very simalar to the Dmax. Very!
 

Accelerator

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That is way off base. Any burn prior to TDC is working against you.not burn, but fueling Period. Dumping all your fuel BTDC when your crank angle duration is 30*-60* just doesn't make sense.why, diesel fuel ignites from cylinder psi, want it to ignite with the air charge just after TDC, a fueling event too far after TDC is a waste IMO thats what i was refering too!

However, we suffer some burn prior to TDC to keep the meat of our burn in the sweet spot of the stroke. When and how much vary with the pulse duration and the RPM.

But, what do I know.....

replies in red
 
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