LML LML Motor Pics

[duratothemax]

I think everybody will be surprised

right ok. Ill come back to this thread in 6 months and it will still be "IN THE WORKS, YOU GUYS JUST WAIT ITS GONNA BE SWEEEEEETTTTT!!!! :thumb::thumb: "

You sound like that guy who was so confident that he was gonna go into the Dmax rod buisness and be able to make a sweet rod that was equal in strength to carillos but less cost. He was all talk despite the fact that I laughed at him, etc etc etc. And what'dya know, 2 months after he started the thread he disappeared off the forums and was never heard from again.

To everyone else in this thread: Dont buy into this and get all giddy. Its not going to happen.

And WhyTry, if you are so confident and have some big secret that no one else knows about, and know of some super duper new tuning shit coming out for the LML, why dont go ahead and post it! Come on, make me look like an ass, make me eat my words.

Otherwise, save your breath. You arent fooling anyone here, and you arent going to attract any attention.

 

[jon5212]

Ok another question... how does GM update the 2011+ trucks when there is a flash update? I don't see them taking the ECM apart to do a flash update. They must be able to read it through the OBD port somehow because how do they tell if the ECM has been flashed before?

 

[duratothemax]

Ok another question... how does GM update the 2011+ trucks when there is a flash update? I don't see them taking the ECM apart to do a flash update. They must be able to read it through the OBD port somehow because how do they tell if the ECM has been flashed before?

you can flash "into" the OBD port no problem.

Its just that you cant read the flash "OUT" of the OBD port. Its disabled in the core processor's bootloader file...or something like that.

Its not like "the capability to read out is there, but its locked with a password".

Its that the capability/knowledge of HOW to "output" the tune file through the OBD port doesnt physically exist in the ECM's brain.

Thats why you cant "hack it/break some magic code and make it work" Because the base knowhow doesnt even exist in the ECM. Its like putting a gun to a 2nd grader's head and asking "TELL ME THE SQUARE ROOT OF 2294966 WITHOUT USING A CALCULATOR". You arent gonna get anything no matter what you do...because a second grader doesnt even know what a square root is to begin with.

Make sense?

 

[Leadfoot]

Not to get into a debate or pissing match, but after reading everything it would still stand to reason just having flash ability with EFI Live would be 10 times better than nothing at all.

EFI Live is a great tool because we (previous ECM generations) have the ability to read, log, and flash. While not being able to read or log, having the ability to flash (update fueling, boost, timing) tables would not be bad (not much different than the current EFI Live idiots, such as myself, who rely on the experts to tune our trucks). Yes you aren't going to be able to optimize each tune to each particular truck or be able to log and make fine adjustments, but using what we know of previous generations and previous alterations (twins, high output cp3, emissions deletes, etc. etc) should be able to get you into the ballpark. It would seem even just being able to flash would be beneficial vs. having to run "stock tuning", especially if someone wants to add twins, bigger injectors, CP3's, etc.

Also, how does GM read AND clear trouble codes in the new ECM? Actually more so the read than the clear, or is it stored in a non-locked portion of memory so it can be read but other parameters are not stored there?

Or is it the mapping of the new ECM (ie. location of fueling tables, timing tables, that is the issue)?

Or am I missing something completely different (which is a good possibility)?

Original poster, thanks of the pics.

 

[jon5212]

you can flash "into" the OBD port no problem.

Its just that you cant read the flash "OUT" of the OBD port. Its disabled in the core processor's bootloader file...or something like that.

Its not like "the capability to read out is there, but its locked with a password".

Its that the capability/knowledge of HOW to "output" the tune file through the OBD port doesnt physically exist in the ECM's brain.

Thats why you cant "hack it/break some magic code and make it work" Because the base knowhow doesnt even exist in the ECM. Its like putting a gun to a 2nd grader's head and asking "TELL ME THE SQUARE ROOT OF 2294966 WITHOUT USING A CALCULATOR". You arent gonna get anything no matter what you do...because a second grader doesnt even know what a square root is to begin with.

Make sense?

Just a quick google search reveals the BMW's use the same EDC 17 ECM. They are stating the cover can be removed from the ECM... do some soldering... and presto you can tune them.

Of course warranty voided on the spot since you take the ECM apart... but we all don't worry about warranties around here.

 

[8100 Power]

Not to get into a debate or pissing match, but after reading everything it would still stand to reason just having flash ability with EFI Live would be 10 times better than nothing at all.

EFI Live is a great tool because we (previous ECM generations) have the ability to read, log, and flash. While not being able to read or log, having the ability to flash (update fueling, boost, timing) tables would not be bad (not much different than the current EFI Live idiots, such as myself, who rely on the experts to tune our trucks). Yes you aren't going to be able to optimize each tune to each particular truck or be able to log and make fine adjustments, but using what we know of previous generations and previous alterations (twins, high output cp3, emissions deletes, etc. etc) should be able to get you into the ballpark. It would seem even just being able to flash would be beneficial vs. having to run "stock tuning", especially if someone wants to add twins, bigger injectors, CP3's, etc.

Also, how does GM read AND clear trouble codes in the new ECM? Actually more so the read than the clear, or is it stored in a non-locked portion of memory so it can be read but other parameters are not stored there?

Or is it the mapping of the new ECM (ie. location of fueling tables, timing tables, that is the issue)?

Or am I missing something completely different (which is a good possibility)?

Original poster, thanks of the pics.

My suggestion from day one was to have a "Master File". A file that within all Operating Systems, etc, that would match up across the board and work with tunes from that.

That has to be how H&S returns the truck back to stock since the ECM can't be read. They simply have those parameters stored on the MiniMaxx that is put back in the truck.

They are changing probably 30 tables? Who knows? But, we all know each truck comes with the same basic timing table, pulse table, etc? Correct?

That's my story.. I may be crazy though..

 

[8100 Power]

Also, the diagnostic function on the OBD2 is still there. So reading, logging, and trouble codes aren't the problem.

The problem with tuning for the LML is the base tune file to start from.

 

[iPhattMatt]

So in conclusion, it basically sounds like everyone thinks I messed up when I bought the LML... :toetap:

 

[fast03]

Not me, but then again I am biased...LOL

 

[Mike L.]

So in conclusion, it basically sounds like everyone thinks I messed up when I bought the LML... :toetap:

Are you kidding? This is the best truck I ever owned. :happy2:

 

[iPhattMatt]

ok good! it wouldnt matter anyways, cuz i love my truck! I didnt think posting pics of the motor would be so controversial. haha

 

[fast03]

ok good! it wouldnt matter anyways, cuz i love my truck! I didnt think posting pics of the motor would be so controversial. haha

Yeah your right. I love my truck too, now just have to get someone to buy my old one.

 

[duratothemax]

Just a quick google search reveals the BMW's use the same EDC 17 ECM. They are stating the cover can be removed from the ECM... do some soldering... and presto you can tune them..

yeah...I know that...

but whos gonna be doing all the ECM disassembling, soldering, and chip replacement? You? Cause I guarantee the EFILive guys have zero desire to waste their valuable time taking ECM's apart and screwing around with a soldering iron all day long.

 

[duratothemax]

Not to get into a debate or pissing match, but after reading everything it would still stand to reason just having flash ability with EFI Live would be 10 times better than nothing at all.

EFI Live is a great tool because we (previous ECM generations) have the ability to read, log, and flash. While not being able to read or log, having the ability to flash (update fueling, boost, timing) tables would not be bad (not much different than the current EFI Live idiots, such as myself, who rely on the experts to tune our trucks). Yes you aren't going to be able to optimize each tune to each particular truck or be able to log and make fine adjustments, but using what we know of previous generations and previous alterations (twins, high output cp3, emissions deletes, etc. etc) should be able to get you into the ballpark. It would seem even just being able to flash would be beneficial vs. having to run "stock tuning", especially if someone wants to add twins, bigger injectors, CP3's, etc.

Also, how does GM read AND clear trouble codes in the new ECM? Actually more so the read than the clear, or is it stored in a non-locked portion of memory so it can be read but other parameters are not stored there?

Or is it the mapping of the new ECM (ie. location of fueling tables, timing tables, that is the issue)?

Or am I missing something completely different (which is a good possibility)?

Original poster, thanks of the pics.

Chris the one key thing that is the issue here is...you need to have something to start with. You NEED the original file before you can flash it into your truck. Where are you going to get that file???

Certainly cant get it from that one guy who opens his ECM and then sends it around to everyone. Because thats considered distributing copywrited software and you can bet GM will come down on you like an iron hammer.

 

[duratothemax]

My suggestion from day one was to have a "Master File". A file that within all Operating Systems, etc, that would match up across the board and work with tunes from that.

That has to be how H&S returns the truck back to stock since the ECM can't be read. They simply have those parameters stored on the MiniMaxx that is put back in the truck.

sure, yeah that would work no problem. Thats EXACTLY how H&S does it. They opened up their ECM, read the tune "manually" through the CPU's "back door" debug port on the circuit board itself. Then they modify that file, upload it onto their little programmer tool, and when you put an H&S tune on your LML, all you are doing is overwriting YOUR factory original tune with H&S's truck's tune that has their changes made to it.

Works great. Is it legal? HELL no! Does it breach just about every copywrite document that GM has written about THEIR ECM software/tunes? You bet!!! THATS why EFILive wont touch it. Because they are smarter and more "responsible" than the blithering bold idiots at H&S/Bullydog.

 

[IOWA LLY]

What makes the the LML ECM/tune so much more illegal to read out and distribute then previous generation dmax's?

 

[Mike L.]

What makes the the LML ECM/tune so much more illegal to read out and distribute then previous generation dmax's?

Because GM stated they would prosecute this time. If you haven't had experience fighting a monster company with an army of lawyers that were bought and paid for like I have; you can't imagine.

 

[8100 Power]

Because GM stated they would prosecute this time. If you haven't had experience fighting a monster company with an army of lawyers that were bought and paid for like I have; you can't imagine.

I guess we'll find out soon enough..

I wonder when H&S will feel this blow?

 

[duratothemax]

What makes the the LML ECM/tune so much more illegal to read out and distribute then previous generation dmax's?

because with the previous generation dmax's you can read out YOUR OWN tune that came with YOUR truck from the factory...then you can "modify it for your own personal use and no one elses" and flash it back in. Thats perfectly legal.

Its like if you video tape the sports game on tv. If you video tape it for your private collection to watch later or something thats fine. If you make a buncha copies of said tape and distribute it/sell it to your buddies, thats a big problem.

Same situation with the LML ECM/tuning.

With the LML, its not possible for the END-USER TO READ OUT THEIR OWN ECM tune and modify it. Because 99% of joe-tuner who just bought EFILive isnt going to know how to open his ECM and get HIS OWN tune out in order to modify it, and reflash it back in.


ugh I dont know why this is so hard for people to understand (the legality issues and distribution of copywrited materials).

 

[JoshH]

I guess we'll find out soon enough..

I wonder when H&S will feel this blow?

I'm gonna guess never. I'm sure GM loves voiding warranties of all the guys that buy their tuners. I don't see how me tuning my truck hurts GM when they can get out of fixing anything that goes wrong with it. I'm sure they would love for every new Duramax owner to buy an H&S tuner for it.