I have two 2013 LML's from trucks with less than 20,000 mi on them. I am in the process of marinizing them to install in a custom center console fishing boat. I chose the LML's not realizing the difficulties getting someone to modify the wiring harnesses for a stand alone marine set up. PPE is looking into it but has never done an LML. It blows me away how these motors have been around since 2011 and aftermarket parts are almost non existent. If no one can build a harness at this time, why couldn't I re-outfit them with a harness and computer from an earlier series? LLM,LBZ,etc.
LML Marine swap
- Thread starter Hawk 40
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The computer is extremely complex and the tuners have to invest a large amount of time inorder to modify the tuning. It isn't really worth their time bc there isn't much demand yet. You can switch the heads out and run a LBZ ecu and injectors and cp3. That's a lot of effort, time and money though...
Call Ben at BT Diesel works. If anybody can figure it out Ben can...
Call Ben at BT Diesel works. If anybody can figure it out Ben can...
Dan at PPE told me today they hadn't done any LML's but would talk to their engineers and get back in touch.
Ben thinks he can do it by leaving the BCM connected but I have a couple more questions and it's really slow getting return emails or calls. I've got the mechanical stuff about whipped, water cooled headers and up pipes, water to air intercoolers, but not so good with electrical.
Ben thinks he can do it by leaving the BCM connected but I have a couple more questions and it's really slow getting return emails or calls. I've got the mechanical stuff about whipped, water cooled headers and up pipes, water to air intercoolers, but not so good with electrical.
I talked to them a few month ago before I started, they wouldn't even give a $$ amount for their marine dmax, and none of the marine parts are for sale.
I do have an ace in the hole but their not cheap or quick.
Innovation Marine is just down the road from me and they build diesels for the navy. These are 700hp 5.9 cummins but they have a 550hp duramax test motor. They build the harnesses from scratch and use a different Bosch controller, harness and computer cost is around 12,000$ per engine plus 3 days on the dyno to do the fuel mapping and you have to catch them between production runs for the military, by then they are backed up with stuff from all the race guys around here.
I do have an ace in the hole but their not cheap or quick.
Innovation Marine is just down the road from me and they build diesels for the navy. These are 700hp 5.9 cummins but they have a 550hp duramax test motor. They build the harnesses from scratch and use a different Bosch controller, harness and computer cost is around 12,000$ per engine plus 3 days on the dyno to do the fuel mapping and you have to catch them between production runs for the military, by then they are backed up with stuff from all the race guys around here.
For the time and cost to try and make an LML work, I would say just pull the LML harness, heads, turbo and sensors and sell them off and replace with LBZ but not sure about the cam and crank position sensors and the CP4 if they can just be replaced with early model parts. I'm sure someone here does however.
There are lots of LLY/LBZ marinized engines out there as they are much easier to run electronically (with a ZF6 transmission tune) with much more tuning options available. LML internals are good and also much cheaper for stock parts in the event something were to fail on them as well so I would keep the shortblock. Plus they are low mileage.
You would also be looking at changing out fuel lines to work with the LBZ stuff but again, lots of used stuff available.
Just my thoughts....
Also Marine Diesel does Duramax engines and has a couple shops in the US. They might be worth talking to for help but PPE can likely supply you with everything you need already if you do go LLY or LBZ. http://www.marinedieselengineering.com/md/engines/vgt-400/
There are lots of LLY/LBZ marinized engines out there as they are much easier to run electronically (with a ZF6 transmission tune) with much more tuning options available. LML internals are good and also much cheaper for stock parts in the event something were to fail on them as well so I would keep the shortblock. Plus they are low mileage.
You would also be looking at changing out fuel lines to work with the LBZ stuff but again, lots of used stuff available.
Just my thoughts....
Also Marine Diesel does Duramax engines and has a couple shops in the US. They might be worth talking to for help but PPE can likely supply you with everything you need already if you do go LLY or LBZ. http://www.marinedieselengineering.com/md/engines/vgt-400/
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I would talk to Kory at PPEI. He will beable to point you in the right way on what you can and can't do with the LML's as far as a standalone is concerned. Since he probably understands the LML tuning architecture better then anyone at this time.
It can't be that hard with the tuning we have now and the harness can't be that bad either. I would love to do a marine swap with one.
Ypu must not be far from me as I know of innovative diesel. Call Kory at PPEI as he has DONE the tuning for one. I remember him posting a screenshot of some of the custom changes he made to do it. I know there is a thread over at EFILIVE's site about problems making the LML run stand-alone, so it isn't just a drop in swap. As to the stand-alone BOSCH controller, not sure if it will work with the PIEZO injectors, or if it only works with regular common rail inejctors.
I would love to put my spare LLY in my blue water boat. anyone know where there is the manifolds and that type of stuff to do it?
Yes, I can make the harness for it no problem.
But right now, it will be required to keep the BCM and TDM (theft deterrent module) connected...so the standalone harness will have to incorporate those two things.
The LML ignition switch is also complicated, but Ive developed an interface module that will allow you to use standard 12v inputs so you can start it with an aftermarket ignition switch or toggle switches and not need to use the factory key or anything.
But like I said, as of right now, no one has figured out how to make a true standalone LML that can be run without the BCM and TDM hooked up.
The LML immobilizer is extremely complex, it is not enabled or disabled with a simple switch (in the code, like a bit that is set 1/0) like previous duramax's. As of right now, no one has figured it out.
The VATS disable stuff in EFILive allows you to successfully swap ECM's between factory pickup trucks without doing a theft-relearn or anything....but once you remove the ECM from a factory pickup truck electrical system, it shuts down.
Ive talked to many people who know a lot more about the LML code than I do, and no one has been able to make it work.
Ben
But right now, it will be required to keep the BCM and TDM (theft deterrent module) connected...so the standalone harness will have to incorporate those two things.
The LML ignition switch is also complicated, but Ive developed an interface module that will allow you to use standard 12v inputs so you can start it with an aftermarket ignition switch or toggle switches and not need to use the factory key or anything.
But like I said, as of right now, no one has figured out how to make a true standalone LML that can be run without the BCM and TDM hooked up.
The LML immobilizer is extremely complex, it is not enabled or disabled with a simple switch (in the code, like a bit that is set 1/0) like previous duramax's. As of right now, no one has figured it out.
The VATS disable stuff in EFILive allows you to successfully swap ECM's between factory pickup trucks without doing a theft-relearn or anything....but once you remove the ECM from a factory pickup truck electrical system, it shuts down.
Ive talked to many people who know a lot more about the LML code than I do, and no one has been able to make it work.
Ben
isn't this what the GMLAN section in the tune is for? I thought it was added to aid in LML swaps?
This table defines what CAN messages the ECM will process from other modules with just the ignition on.
You would normally only alter this table for engine conversions where different vehicle platforms require different messages to be enabled or disabled or engine swaps where no other GM modules are present.
** IMPORTANT ** DO NOT ALTER THIS TABLE IF YOU ARE UNSURE WHAT YOU ARE DOING, RESULTS OF SHUTTING OFF OR ENABLING MESSAGES MAY RESULT IN UNPREDICATBLE VEHICLE OPERATION.
Only the following values may be entered into this table:
- Disable
- Enable
This is right out of an LML tune. maybe I'm wrong but isn't that what this is for?
You would normally only alter this table for engine conversions where different vehicle platforms require different messages to be enabled or disabled or engine swaps where no other GM modules are present.
** IMPORTANT ** DO NOT ALTER THIS TABLE IF YOU ARE UNSURE WHAT YOU ARE DOING, RESULTS OF SHUTTING OFF OR ENABLING MESSAGES MAY RESULT IN UNPREDICATBLE VEHICLE OPERATION.
Only the following values may be entered into this table:
- Disable
- Enable
This is right out of an LML tune. maybe I'm wrong but isn't that what this is for?