Help: LB7 new head studs and cups but still have water leak

[SonicAudio]

Sorry if this seems a bit sparatic in my description but i am at my whits end and on this project for a little over 4 weeks off and on with VERY little sleep.
I have had a leak of water to oil and hydro locking when starting my truck. It got to the point i decided to just do it and do it right. I ordered the head gasket kit from merchant that had the ARP studs and head gasket, I also ordered all 8 injector cups (didnt want to do this again). when i removed the heads the right side (passenger) back 2 were full of coolant. I had the heads machined and pressure tested (with no cups as mine had not came in yet). WD-40 1000 grit sanded the block untill it had a almost mirror finish. cleaned the injector cup holes with the kent moore bore tool and HUGE Q-tip. used a TON of the red locktight that came with the gasket kit on the bottom of the injector cups, and installed all new OEM injectors to seat the cups. put back together torqued to 125 in the proper order. I went to work (heard the cups need a 24 hour cure time with the locktight so i wasent going to risk it and fill and run before) placed all back together and fired it up, changed the oil and filter 4 times to get the coolant that was in it out of the block and ports. I have drove it for 2 days, and also let idol for hours during the flush process. I have pictures of the entire process if it will help let me know.

torqued the nuts to 125 in 4 steps.
step 1 - 37lb
step 2 - 59lb
step 3 - 92lb
step 4 - 125lb

i have had the truck for over a year as a daily driver. never a water leak untill just recently and my lower end is stock. and my PPE was never set over level 3 (dont have the money for the allison). the turbo has the PPE increase valve in it ( the blue one).

thing is no over pressure or over heating issue. mater of fact it still is running the exact same temp as before. Also it isnt "loosing" coolant as long as it is running. it seems to only leak into the cyl if it is just sitting not running. That is why i was thinking maybe there was some way the turbo could leak to the intake while not running but that would be in all of the chambers insted of the one. beats me I just dont know...

Now I noticed it hydro locking again and slight water loss (havent filled with the dex-cool yet) I am at a loss here, no idea where to start or what it could be.
Thanks for any help

 

[S Phinney]

If you do a compression test it will let you know which cylinders are down on compression. Since you know which cylinders are getting water into them they should also be down on compression. If they aren't which I don't know how they couldn't be if its a cup or gasket then you would have a major issue elsewhere. Hope that's not to confusing with how I worded it.

 

[bullfrogjohnson]

Have you pressure tested the coolant system? Do you have coolant mixing with the oil or did you just change the oil that many times because you got coolant in the oil while changing the head gaskets?

Its not a california truck with an EGR is it? Truck doesnt smoke at idle? Also does the turbo have any shaft play?

 

[SonicAudio]

no EGR, and yes it had coolant in the oil to start with but not oil in the coolant that is what forced me to do the head gasket and injector cups. well that along with the hydro- locking. now there is no water in the oil (yet) after 5 days of driving and NUMEROUS hours of idol time. when running even at regular operating tempature, there is no pressure on the coolant system, I removed the cap today with it running after a 45 mile run and no pressure at all.

 

[bullfrogjohnson]

I would pressurize the coolant system and let it sit overnight with the glowplugs out to see if it leaks down. If it does leak down the turn the motor over by hand with the glowplugs removed and it will show what the problem cylinder is.

Do you have any pics of the pistons and cylinder walls on the passenger side with the head off? Also check the turbo for shaft play. Its unlikely that the turbo is leaking coolant into the motor but i've seen crazier things.

Also did the machine shop check the warm the heads up and check for leaks? Alot of cracks dont show their ugly face until they are hot. Cracked duramax heads are not very common though.

 

[SonicAudio]

I would pressurize the coolant system and let it sit overnight with the glowplugs out to see if it leaks down. If it does leak down the turn the motor over by hand with the glowplugs removed and it will show what the problem cylinder is.

Do you have any pics of the pistons and cylinder walls on the passenger side with the head off? Also check the turbo for shaft play. Its unlikely that the turbo is leaking coolant into the motor but i've seen crazier things.

Also did the machine shop check the warm the heads up and check for leaks? Alot of cracks dont show their ugly face until they are hot. Cracked duramax heads are not very common though.

here is some of the tear down

 

[SonicAudio]

here are a few from the build

 

[68skylark455]

Check around your oil cooler very close. Ours was leaking on the front diff into the mud caked up and he never saw anything leaking till it was too late. Just a few questions though. Didn't see any lube on head studs and did you cycle them the 4 times as they require? I am doing the same job right now and its a pain to cycle the bolts in the truck but it needs to be done. I am sure the all grades of ARP studs require it. I think someone also said they had a back cover do the same thing. Ours was oil in coolant but i think he got it to warm and did in a headgasket. Still haven't found deffinate proof of where our leak actually was either

 

[SonicAudio]

Check around your oil cooler very close. Ours was leaking on the front diff into the mud caked up and he never saw anything leaking till it was too late. Just a few questions though. Didn't see any lube on head studs and did you cycle them the 4 times as they require? I am doing the same job right now and its a pain to cycle the bolts in the truck but it needs to be done. I am sure the all grades of ARP studs require it. I think someone also said they had a back cover do the same thing. Ours was oil in coolant but i think he got it to warm and did in a headgasket. Still haven't found deffinate proof of where our leak actually was either

when you say cycle them 4 times do you mean
torqued the nuts to 125 in 4 steps.
step 1 - 37lb
step 2 - 59lb
step 3 - 92lb
step 4 - 125lb ??

i did that, lubed the studs with the stuff in the tube that came with them prior to putting them in the block, I also bought the tap to make sure the block holes were clear and ready for the studs.as far as the cooler, it is on the driver side and it is my passenger side that has the water and it is the one closest to the firewall. man i wish this was easier to diagnose

thanks for the input guys, keep em comeing i need the input and really appreciate all the help


so far i have to presure the system, and check the turbo play and report back

 

[Jared Duramax]

are the inside of the inter cooler pipes oily or are they dry?

pressure test the system that will tell you a lot about whats going on.

 

[68skylark455]

The ARP studs I just put in are the next step up from yours. After you get them to 125 (or 150 on ours) you then loosen them and retorque them back to said torque 3 more times. I just mentioned the cooler as a possible cause of the original loss/mixing of coolant and oil. The guy that owns this said the temp never went above 210 but it took 1 1/2 to 2 gallons every 3 days. He drove it 13+ hours to get home and then to me. We had water in the 3 cylinder back pass side aswell. Check the instructions in your arp box and look at the very bottom to see if you have to loosen and retorque them-I am pretty sure you do.

 

[SonicAudio]

The ARP studs I just put in are the next step up from yours. After you get them to 125 (or 150 on ours) you then loosen them and retorque them back to said torque 3 more times. I just mentioned the cooler as a possible cause of the original loss/mixing of coolant and oil. The guy that owns this said the temp never went above 210 but it took 1 1/2 to 2 gallons every 3 days. He drove it 13+ hours to get home and then to me. We had water in the 3 cylinder back pass side aswell. Check the instructions in your arp box and look at the very bottom to see if you have to loosen and retorque them-I am pretty sure you do.

I will upload the install sheet that came with mine as soon as I get off work, mine didn't call for the loosen then re-tighten and I that was required then that is a step I missed!

 

[SonicAudio]

are the inside of the inter cooler pipes oily or are they dry?

pressure test the system that will tell you a lot about whats going on.

inside of cooler was dry as a bone. Will pressure test this weekend and see what I can see

 

[skintback]

I don't think cycling the studs 3-4 times is going to make it or break it.

How snug was the fit when you installed the cups did you tap them down with a socket and hammer first and then install the injector?

 

[SonicAudio]

I don't think cycling the studs 3-4 times is going to make it or break it.

How snug was the fit when you installed the cups did you tap them down with a socket and hammer first and then install the injector?

I used the Kent Moore tool to remove The old ones and install the new cups. As each one was lock tight and tapped in I installed the injector and torques the injector before moving to the next cup so that each was seated and had no chance for movement.

Btw what is FNG mean by my nick?

 

[ripmf666]

You must streach the head studs when there new. Then youbalso must let them stay over night then go over them again with the tq wrench you will get a half turn extra after 24 hrs. When you get to 125 you just loosen them and tq them back to 125 3 times then 24 hrs later after it been in the gararge and it's been warm then cold you end up getting more when doing the final check.

 

[68skylark455]

You must streach the head studs when there new. Then youbalso must let them stay over night then go over them again with the tq wrench you will get a half turn extra after 24 hrs. When you get to 125 you just loosen them and tq them back to 125 3 times then 24 hrs later after it been in the gararge and it's been warm then cold you end up getting more when doing the final check.

Thats what I thought I did with the first set. I know i did with the new set--I am still sore-should have pulled the motor or atleast removed the damn grill guard:happy2: Aside from being sore and hurting in places I didnt realize I had muscles 4"-6" lift with 35's and the guard it isnt to bad to do in the truck. J/K it wasn't that bad:thumb:

 

[SonicAudio]

Is it to late to re torque them or is it best to just go ahead and just get new head gaskets?

 

[skintback]

You must streach the head studs when there new. Then youbalso must let them stay over night then go over them again with the tq wrench you will get a half turn extra after 24 hrs. When you get to 125 you just loosen them and tq them back to 125 3 times then 24 hrs later after it been in the gararge and it's been warm then cold you end up getting more when doing the final check.

So to get by with one time you should tq them to 150 :spit:

 

[SonicAudio]

just got back from running it on interstate and it is using coolant while running! checked the top hose of the radiator before removing the cap of the fill tank and it had a slight vacuum on the hose while it was idling (didnt shut off the truck when the low coolant light came on) and filled it. This was less than 5 min after the light came on on interstate.

hope this helps pinpoint it before i start pulling it back apart again