integrated brake controller ????

[malibu795]

the LMM i just got came with one. figures i would give it a go, (didnt have to shell out another ~130.00 in upfit cost).. i'm growing rather dissaopinted in it. to get any reasonable braking out of the trailer i find either have to manually activate the brakes or push harder then really need on the truck's brakes... there is a serious amount of nose dive while braking..i'm sure the LMM's 133" wb and 38" pin height contributes to the nose dive vs the 99 3500HD's 160" wb and a 32" pin hieght loaded..i can watch the gain move in relation to the the pedal pressure both while stopped and moving..are they working as designed? (imo Gm dropped the ball) or what??


i have been running a tekosha P2 in the red truck. even when im running just under gross(26,000) i rarely have the P2 turned up past B2.. i run the trailer brakes setup up to slightly lead the tow vehicle.. verse the tow vehicle leading.

i jack knived the truck and trailer last winter doing the later.. drives lost traction before the steers or trailer and came around on me. that quickly changed my way of setting the trailer brakes

 

[Fingers]

Did you increase the gain?

 

[LBZ]

the LMM i just got came with one. figures i would give it a go, (didnt have to shell out another ~130.00 in upfit cost).. i'm growing rather dissaopinted in it. to get any reasonable braking out of the trailer i find either have to manually activate the brakes or push harder then really need on the truck's brakes... there is a serious amount of nose dive while braking..i'm sure the LMM's 133" wb and 38" pin height contributes to the nose dive vs the 99 3500HD's 160" wb and a 32" pin hieght loaded..i can watch the gain move in relation to the the pedal pressure both while stopped and moving..are they working as designed? (imo Gm dropped the ball) or what??


i have been running a tekosha P2 in the red truck. even when im running just under gross(26,000) i rarely have the P2 turned up past B2.. i run the trailer brakes setup up to slightly lead the tow vehicle.. verse the tow vehicle leading.

i jack knived the truck and trailer last winter doing the later.. drives lost traction before the steers or trailer and came around on me. that quickly changed my way of setting the trailer brakes

IN RED - This is how you should be set-up. It's called using the company brakes

I think the controller is working as designed. My '09 company truck works the same way and only hauling 10 000lbs on a bumper pull trailer when compared between the GM one in it and the aftermarket in my '07, I prefer the GM one. I do find I have to run a higher gain. I would suggest checking your brake adjustment too if you haven't already.

 

[malibu795]

Did you increase the gain?

maxed out.

 

[Blackcarhartts]

I am pleased with the integrated controller in my truck. With my trailer i run the gain up at 7 or so. IMO they come on and release smoother than aftermarket controllers perhaps making it seem like they are not working right. If i use the old mans truck with his Tekonsha the they seem somewhat clunky, on harsh off instantly.

 

[gmduramax]

I use the factory controller when towing 10,000lbs gain set on 6. Seems to work fine for me. The truck will adjust for gain if it isn't set right. So I've read. Try setting it on 7 or 8 and hitting your brakes fairly hard from 60-20mph see of that makes any difference.

 

[yellowchevy]

the LMM i just got came with one. figures i would give it a go, (didnt have to shell out another ~130.00 in upfit cost).. i'm growing rather dissaopinted in it. to get any reasonable braking out of the trailer i find either have to manually activate the brakes or push harder then really need on the truck's brakes... there is a serious amount of nose dive while braking..i'm sure the LMM's 133" wb and 38" pin height contributes to the nose dive vs the 99 3500HD's 160" wb and a 32" pin hieght loaded..i can watch the gain move in relation to the the pedal pressure both while stopped and moving..are they working as designed? (imo Gm dropped the ball) or what??


i have been running a tekosha P2 in the red truck. even when im running just under gross(26,000) i rarely have the P2 turned up past B2.. i run the trailer brakes setup up to slightly lead the tow vehicle.. verse the tow vehicle leading.

i jack knived the truck and trailer last winter doing the later.. drives lost traction before the steers or trailer and came around on me. that quickly changed my way of setting the trailer brakes

If I'm understanding you right Adam you set the trailer brakes up to do more work than the pickup brakes? Meaning when you put the brakes on when going down the road you can feel the trailer slow the pickup down more than if the pickup was slowing down the trailer?

Just trying to get a better understanding of the proper way to set trailer brakes, I honestly never have. I just put enough on so that it feels good, haha; not the best method.

Yellowchevy

 

[Kappa9012]

your understanding is correct. you don't want the trailer pushing the vehicle when you're trying to stop. That's how trailers jack knife.

 

[malibu795]

If I'm understanding you right Adam you set the trailer brakes up to do more work than the pickup brakes? Meaning when you put the brakes on when going down the road you can feel the trailer slow the pickup down more than if the pickup was slowing down the trailer?

Just trying to get a better understanding of the proper way to set trailer brakes, I honestly never have. I just put enough on so that it feels good, haha; not the best method.

Yellowchevy

trailer is to stop the trailer weight... not shove the truck causeing nose dive in light to mild braking.. if setup right you shouldnt even see and increase in braking distance..

your understanding is correct. you don't want the trailer pushing the vehicle when you're trying to stop. That's how trailers jack knife.

:thumb:

they should come on hard enough to notice but not hard enough to jerk the truck...
example
stop in a middle of a tighe turn.. too light the trailer will cause the truck to roll out ward.. too much the truck will lean inward

 

[Low366Dmax]

I have the tekosha p3 in my truck and wouldn't trade it for anything it locks up and releases smooth every time


Sent from my iPhone

 

[Fingers]

If you can get the brakes to grab properly with the hand control, you should be able to set the gain to do the same thing....

The only odd thing about the built in controller is it is hooked into the ABS system. How it interacts with it and decides when to reduce trailer braking is not totally clear to me.

If you have the DIC set to show braking power, what is the indicated gain?

 

[malibu795]

If you can get the brakes to grab properly with the hand control, you should be able to set the gain to do the same thing....

The only odd thing about the built in controller is it is hooked into the ABS system. How it interacts with it and decides when to reduce trailer braking is not totally clear to me.

If you have the DIC set to show braking power, what is the indicated gain?

the only way to keep the trailer from pushing the truck while braking is to manually control the brakes.
i have the DIC set for the trailer gain and output.. and bar for the output moves with the brake pedal pressure.
while i was running the grades on US22, i would check the speed going down.. i would get some nose dive and little to nothing for trailer output.. giving the sensation that any harder or a quick lane change would result in almost instant jack knife.
this is current load little heavier than yesterdays

 

[btfarm]

Agreed that I always let the trailer slow the truck and if the new controllers aren't allowing that setting then I'll keep the Prodigy. Since it's tied to the ABS then I wonder how that does on ice. My Tekosha damn near took me off the road on an icy day a while back with 15k hooked. Wondered at the time how ABS on the controller would have left me.

 

[Fingers]

the only way to keep the trailer from pushing the truck while braking is to manually control the brakes.
i have the DIC set for the trailer gain and output.. and bar for the output moves with the brake pedal pressure.
while i was running the grades on US22, i would check the speed going down.. i would get some nose dive and little to nothing for trailer output.. giving the sensation that any harder or a quick lane change would result in almost instant jack knife.
this is current load little heavier than yesterdays

That's what I thought. The ABS is messing with the output. I seem to recall a service bulletin....

 

[Fingers]

I'm thinking bad or failing brake pressure sensor. With gain maxed, a firm brake apply should max out your output and Trailer brakes.


Circuit/System Testing
•Ignition OFF, disconnect the harness connector at the brake pressure sensor.
•Ignition OFF, test for less than 5 ohm between the low reference circuit terminal A and ground.




⇒

If greater than the specified range, test the low reference circuit for an open/high resistance.

•Ignition ON, test for 4.8-5.2 volts between the 5-volt reference circuit terminal B and ground.




⇒

If less than the specified range, test the 5-volt reference circuit for a short to ground or an open/high resistance.





⇒

If greater than the specified range, test the 5-volt reference circuit for a short to voltage.

•Verify the scan tool Brake Pressure Sensor Input parameter is less than 8 kPa (1.2 psi).




⇒

If greater than the specified range, test the signal circuit terminal C for a short to voltage.

•Install a 3A fused jumper wire between the signal circuit terminal C and the 5-volt reference circuit terminal B. Verify the scan tool Brake Pressure Sensor Input parameter is greater than 550 kPa (80 psi).




⇒

If less than the specified range, test the signal circuit for a short to ground or an open/high resistance.

•If all circuits test normal, test or replace the brake pressure sensor. If DTC resets, replace the EBCM

 

[malibu795]

did you find the the SB number? and i'll see if the local one can swing me through and verify its working..

 

[malibu795]

does it have adaptive learning?
the IBC seams to responds alot better now than when i left out tuesday roughly 1400 miles ago.... while it still doesnt lead the truck, i have caught it locking the tries up on the trailer on the way home.. it would even come close to that tuesday

 

[JakeBrakeIH]

FWIW I was pretty dissapointed with my 07 LMM's intergrated trailer brakes. I had purchased a brand new Kaufman trailer, and the damn gain was at ~8! I used my LML to tow a cattle trailer(not very heavy at all) and was tickled to death at how much better it was than the LMM. Also I towed with Richlmm's 2012 LML with his puller on back (~24k) and again leaps and bounds better than the LMM. No idea what is different? I wonder if there is updates on it???

 

[Fingers]

Never did find a SB on it. Sorry.

FWIW I have been running a BrakeSmart controller on my truck since I bought it. Very similar to the built in controller in that it works off the brake line pressure. Personally, I don't think I could deal with another inertia system again.

I wonder how much of the dive is from the stupid high hitch height on those trucks.

 

[malibu795]

I wonder how much of the dive is from the stupid high hitch height on those trucks.

i would guess alot! you saw my red truck the ball is roughly 2.5" above the frame on it.
the new one is ~4" above the frame and the frame is ~4" above the red truck..
put ~5000lb on the pin (~7200lb graw) and the frame squats to about 30" which about the same as the red truck with same pin weight...
truck still have the wonderful OEM shocks on as well..


if it doesnt get with the program its getting replaced before winter hits:rules: