#%^*ing thieves

[LBZ]

I'm sorry, but dudes who get in fights at sports bars are already pussies.

Really........
So do you think it's less of a pussy move to pull a gun on a guy that calls you out to fight after you been grabbin and clutchin on his missus inappropriately then??
Or just dealing up front with a confrontation in a bar in general is being a pussy?

 

[TAGLARRY]

I'm no lawyer or law enforcement officer, but I do know how to read. I don't know of too many ways to interpret this law.

I have been in law enforcement for more than 20 years. Robbery is not a property crime. You may be thinking of theft or larceny. Robbery is the taking of something of value with force or the threatened use of force (WITH OR WITHOUT A WEAPON). There again is the required factor in using deadly force, YOU MUST BE PROTECTING YOURSELF OR ANOTHER PERSON.
I am not defending the criminals but I don't want anyone to think that they can start cranking off rounds and at guy who is stealing their new rims and tires. Of course, if the suspect were to "come at you in a threatening manner with his tire iron" then by all means blast away.
:cheerleader:

 

[JoshH]

I have been in law enforcement for more than 20 years. Robbery is not a property crime. You may be thinking of theft or larceny. Robbery is the taking of something of value with force or the threatened use of force (WITH OR WITHOUT A WEAPON). There again is the required factor in using deadly force, YOU MUST BE PROTECTING YOURSELF OR ANOTHER PERSON.
I am not defending the criminals but I don't want anyone to think that they can start cranking off rounds and at guy who is stealing their new rims and tires. Of course, if the suspect were to "come at you in a threatening manner with his tire iron" then by all means blast away.
:cheerleader:

Thanks for clarifying. Since you are familiar with the law, can you explain the difference between robbery and aggravated robbery?

 

[TAGLARRY]

Thanks for clarifying. Since you are familiar with the law, can you explain the difference between robbery and aggravated robbery?

Simple robbery is when the criminal takes something of value by the use of force, threats, or intimidation. As an example: "Give my your wallet or I am going to beat the $#@!% out of you".

Aggravated robbery is just robbery with one of several agravating factors.
1. Armed with a deadly weapon
2. Causes an injury with a weapon
3. Is with an accomplice who has a deadly weapon
4. Armed with a fake deadly weapon that the victim believed was real
5. Stated that he was armed with a deadly weapon

 

[JoshH]

Thank you. Now I feel educated :thumb:

 

[WolfLMM]

Really........
So do you think it's less of a pussy move to pull a gun on a guy that calls you out to fight after you been grabbin and clutchin on his missus inappropriately then??
Or just dealing up front with a confrontation in a bar in general is being a pussy?

First off I'm not going to pull a gun on someone wanting to fight.

Second I'm not going to call anyone out to fight.

And last if someone tries to make a move on my wife, I will tell them to knock it off, if that fails, me and the wifey will leave. If they insist on causing trouble ie follow us out, then it's on, and I don't talk any shit. When I decide to fight, my fist is in their face, before they know we are fighting.

Just to clarify I'm not a badass or anything, actually I hate fighting, but if someone leaves you no choice, then by all means. I don't go to the bars much anyways, for that very reason. Drunk jerks that think every women belongs to them.

Isn't this thread about a break in?

 

[LBZ]

.........
Isn't this thread about a break in?

I think it may have been..........
But now at least we all know the gun/home protection laws for most of the states in the US!

 

[496 BB]

I am not defending the criminals but I don't want anyone to think that they can start cranking off rounds and at guy who is stealing their new rims and tires. Of course, if the suspect were to "come at you in a threatening manner with his tire iron" then by all means blast away.
:cheerleader:

THIS is why you keep an unregistered gun around without prints. When you see the robber throw the gun at the guy. When he catches it you say "Oh shit he has a gun!" and you shoot. If thats not life threatening I dont know what is

 

[Rhall]

First off I'm not going to pull a gun on someone wanting to fight.

Second I'm not going to call anyone out to fight.

And last if someone tries to make a move on my wife, I will tell them to knock it off, if that fails, me and the wifey will leave. If they insist on causing trouble ie follow us out, then it's on, and I don't talk any shit. When I decide to fight, my fist is in their face, before they know we are fighting.

Just to clarify I'm not a badass or anything, actually I hate fighting, but if someone leaves you no choice, then by all means. I don't go to the bars much anyways, for that very reason. Drunk jerks that think every women belongs to them.

Isn't this thread about a break in?

So your a cheap shot?:rofl::rofl: JK

 

[Dozerboy]

I have been in law enforcement for more than 20 years. Robbery is not a property crime. You may be thinking of theft or larceny. Robbery is the taking of something of value with force or the threatened use of force (WITH OR WITHOUT A WEAPON). There again is the required factor in using deadly force, YOU MUST BE PROTECTING YOURSELF OR ANOTHER PERSON.

First off I don't mean this as an insult, but that doesn't mean jack squat. For one there are plenty of officers out there that don't know laws or there interpretation of the law is incorrect. Next you haven't been in law enforcement here or if you have see #1. In TX we have different laws I think it is in part to when we where negotiating our statehood or because of the Civil War. My Texas history is a bit rusty.

Now down to the facts Texas Penal Code § 9.41., and § 9.42.

§ 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in
lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is
justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful
interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible,
movable property by another is justified in using force against the
other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force
is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the
property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit
after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no
claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using
force, threat, or fraud against the actor.

Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Last but not least I love this one too. Texas Penal Code § 9.43

Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.

 

[MACKIN]

I was referring to you saying you have a "conceal" permit. It is not a conceal permit, but a permit to carry a pistol or revolver. Just was clearing up a misconception. Please dont take it the wrong way We dont have a law stating how we have to carry the gun, yet anyway. This homo malloy may be the decider of all things firearms in ct though very soon.

I guess we're playing word games? Yes true I have a permit to carry a handgun. And with this permit in oder to carry this hamdgun IT MUST be concealed to the public while on my person. So I have a Permit to carry a concealed gun.

Id bet on that also. Kinda like body builder guys you see at the bar always thinking they are the shit. Cant tell ya how many times thats not worked out in their advantage. Its the ones that dont cry "I have big nuts" that you have to worry about. Id take my chances any day getting the upper hand with a gun toting mugger if I didnt have mine with me. Once that adrenaline starts pumping your in a completely different mind frame and NOONE can say what they would do. Only thing to judge that is previous experiences with the same emotions flowing. I know what Id do judging from previous experiences but ALOT of people dont have that to go off of. Most people will choke when it really comes down to it. Ive seen it personally with many of friends. Some have it most dont. Just hope the situation never arises and you wont have to find out what the outcome is. Its purely instincts.

Mackin - Didnt they teach you in CCW (or did you have to have one?) that an unloaded/un-chambered gun in worthless? If its not chambered why carry it? If you worry about it going off then get another gun...plenty out there that you dont have to worry about. Around here we cant have loaded gun while in bar drinking. Was talk about carrying without drinking in these places but dont know what the outcome was.

Most definately it is worthless but I didn't want to leave it in the vehicle in this neighboehood. But I thought I might just unload the gun and just carry it unloaded than I said forget it and just put the clip back in the gun. In honesty I shoild have just went home that night.

X2, everybody acts like you will rot in prison for the rest of life if you shoot someone stealing from you, breaking in, raping your wife, etc.



And to all the arguments stating:"well he had a gun to my face, if I would have reached for mine he would have shot me". Well guess what, you were to slow..... If someone is in my house or shop, my pistol is already out. That doesn't mean I'm going to shoot some meth head stealing scrap from me, what it does mean is: my weapon is drawn and targeted in, so his next actions determine what happens from that point on.

It's interesting some guys are interested in losing their lives over petty theft. Obviosly we aren't discussing our wives being raped as anyone would risk it all for that but for my instance over a couple bucks if you think your faster luckier than a desperate individual with his finger on the trigger with a gun pointed at your head than your superman. But talk is cheap and when your put in that situation FOR REAL let us know how you make out superman if you do. Put the remote control down Dirty Harry!

 

[WolfLMM]

So stealing nearly 120k is petty theft. Damn I wish I was as rich as you:thumb:


I use to like you alright, but now you have assumed too much. I had a Mexican put a gun to my face at a carwash in albertville Al. Right next to one of the busiest highways in the USA! Just so happened a cop was riding by, swerved in and saved the day. I told the cop if I would have been in my other vehicle I would have shot the ****er dead, as I had plenty of time to react. He told me, you would have had every right to do so.


So get the **** off your high horse.

I guess we're playing word games? Yes true I have a permit to carry a handgun. And with this permit in oder to carry this hamdgun IT MUST be concealed to the public while on my person. So I have a Permit to carry a concealed gun.



Most definately it is worthless but I didn't want to leave it in the vehicle in this neighboehood. But I thought I might just unload the gun and just carry it unloaded than I said forget it and just put the clip back in the gun. In honesty I shoild have just went home that night.



It's interesting some guys are interested in losing their lives over petty theft. Obviosly we aren't discussing our wives being raped as anyone would risk it all for that but for my instance over a couple bucks if you think your faster luckier than a desperate individual with his finger on the trigger with a gun pointed at your head than your superman. But talk is cheap and when your put in that situation FOR REAL let us know how you make out superman if you do. Put the remote control down Dirty Harry!

 

[pmeg1]

It's anyone's guess how they'd act until they are in that spot. If someone is coming at you and you fear your safety you'd better be shooting by the time they break 25 feet. That came from concealed carry class and professional weapons class instructors alike.

 

[jraymer]

I wonder when some of these criminals will get the hint. Here in Vegas there have been a decent amount of people breaking into houses, and most of them leaving the house on a gurney or in a bag. I have seen guys going through my neighborhood and my family and friends casing houses in the middle of the day, ringing door bells and walking off right away and then looking back to see who is home, its pretty sad. One bonus to being unemployed is being home to protect my stuff

 

[Chevmeister]

I love gun threads!
Alot of you seem to have had training, and if you have you know if someone is holding a gun to your head your either not getting shot, or your dead. If you try to defend yourself your probalby dead unless your Chuck Norris and you use spent lead for ear plugs.
Another point, Mac did the right thing, the dude wanted his money, he gave it up. I know PA, DE, FL, CT, MD, and a few other states CC laws. In PA, CT, and DE if you are given the option give up a possession or die, you HAVE TO GIVE UP THE POSSESSION! sucks doesnt it? Only in your own home in PA and CT are you allowed to defend yourself with out the duty to flee, anywhere else you have to run before you can shoot, provided its safe to do so. If you shoot someone mugging you and the cops find out you were not in danger if you gave up your wallet, or that you could have run away, your guilty of homocide. Also if your fast, and can get your gun out and they shoot you, they can claim self defense. If they have a good attorney they might even get away with it.
Im armed, and in the event I had to use it, theres a good chance I wolnt die. Theres an even better chance of me and the agressor are both heading to the hospital with soiled shorts and gunshot wounds. If someone wants my cash, Ill give it up. Someones hurting my wife or kids, ill try whatever i can if it means me shooting someone so be it.
For anyone thinking there gonna shoot someone in the leg, try it. If youve ever had to try to shoot on the move, or even harder tried to shoot a moving target you know its not easy. 5" groups at 15 yards are difficult when your moving and running against a clock. Try it when your scared for your life.
And if anyone wants to be specific about wording, it MAGAZINE!!!! Clips are for rifles with fixed mags. One of my instructors broke me of that yeas ago.

CT issues a "pistol permit" which allows the holder to carry a firearm either concealed or openly, and you can carry in a bar just not while intoxicated.

Anyone who says the laws for carry adn self defense are the same anywhere in the us, knows nothign about CC law. I make it a point to know the laws where I carry, and they vary alot. In alot of states laws vary from town to town. For instance in CT theres 2 cities even Mac cant carry, New Britain and New London.

I know im way off base here, but some of you need to get a reality check. Saying I got a loaded gun and ill use it if someone does this. Ill promise you, if i get on your jury ill say not guilty, but if i dont make it, it was nice knowing ya.

 

[carter_44]

So your a cheap shot?:rofl::rofl: JK

There are no rules of etiquette that govern a street fight. If someone smacks you in the back of the head with a baseball bat then he won and you lost...period. If it is going to happen then there is nothing wrong with ensuring that you have the upper hand.

As far as the shoot or don't shoot goes...I would rather be judged by twelve than carried by six. If I feel that my life or the life of family etc. is threatened then I am going to do my best to put the guy in the ground before he puts me in the ground. Simple as that. We can work the rest of it out later.

 

[custom8726]

There are no rules of etiquette that govern a street fight. If someone smacks you in the back of the head with a baseball bat then he won and you lost...period. If it is going to happen then there is nothing wrong with ensuring that you have the upper hand.

As far as the shoot or don't shoot goes...I would rather be judged by twelve than carried by six. If I feel that my life or the life of family etc. is threatened then I am going to do my best to put the guy in the ground before he puts me in the ground. Simple as that.

Well said:thumb::thumb:

 

[Big Block 88]

I have a CC and I never carry on my person, but my truck has got some noise makers, keeping a glock 21 by my side is peace of mind. If you want to just scare some one a 12 guage loaded with slugs with a warning shot at a solid object will usually detour anyone thinkin they are tuff. Nothin like a big bore to make people realize "if the barrel is that big how big of a hole will it make in me?"

Theft sucks and I feel terrible for any and all who have been stolen from, but the best thing to do is just carry on with your life. Being pissed off will pass felling violated will pass going to jail for killing or injury a piece of shit thief can mean life. Do your best and try and enjoy your family and the holidays bud it will help alot.

 

[WolfLMM]

Maybe my post was unclear. Your right Mac was screwed. If you have a gun to your head it's already too late. Just as in my case, however I did not have a weapon at all.

What my post intended to get across, is always be keenly aware of your surroundings. In my case I new the guy had a weapon, as he was flashing it a lot. If I would have be armed, I would have shot the guy before he ever got close enough to shove a pistol up my nose.

The whole point of carrying is: don't let the other guy get the upper hand.

I love gun threads!
Alot of you seem to have had training, and if you have you know if someone is holding a gun to your head your either not getting shot, or your dead. If you try to defend yourself your probalby dead unless your Chuck Norris and you use spent lead for ear plugs.
Another point, Mac did the right thing, the dude wanted his money, he gave it up. I know PA, DE, FL, CT, MD, and a few other states CC laws. In PA, CT, and DE if you are given the option give up a possession or die, you HAVE TO GIVE UP THE POSSESSION! sucks doesnt it? Only in your own home in PA and CT are you allowed to defend yourself with out the duty to flee, anywhere else you have to run before you can shoot, provided its safe to do so. If you shoot someone mugging you and the cops find out you were not in danger if you gave up your wallet, or that you could have run away, your guilty of homocide. Also if your fast, and can get your gun out and they shoot you, they can claim self defense. If they have a good attorney they might even get away with it.
Im armed, and in the event I had to use it, theres a good chance I wolnt die. Theres an even better chance of me and the agressor are both heading to the hospital with soiled shorts and gunshot wounds. If someone wants my cash, Ill give it up. Someones hurting my wife or kids, ill try whatever i can if it means me shooting someone so be it.
For anyone thinking there gonna shoot someone in the leg, try it. If youve ever had to try to shoot on the move, or even harder tried to shoot a moving target you know its not easy. 5" groups at 15 yards are difficult when your moving and running against a clock. Try it when your scared for your life.
And if anyone wants to be specific about wording, it MAGAZINE!!!! Clips are for rifles with fixed mags. One of my instructors broke me of that yeas ago.

CT issues a "pistol permit" which allows the holder to carry a firearm either concealed or openly, and you can carry in a bar just not while intoxicated.

Anyone who says the laws for carry adn self defense are the same anywhere in the us, knows nothign about CC law. I make it a point to know the laws where I carry, and they vary alot. In alot of states laws vary from town to town. For instance in CT theres 2 cities even Mac cant carry, New Britain and New London.

I know im way off base here, but some of you need to get a reality check. Saying I got a loaded gun and ill use it if someone does this. Ill promise you, if i get on your jury ill say not guilty, but if i dont make it, it was nice knowing ya.

 

[WolfLMM]

There are no rules of etiquette that govern a street fight. If someone smacks you in the back of the head with a baseball bat then he won and you lost...period. If it is going to happen then there is nothing wrong with ensuring that you have the upper hand.

As far as the shoot or don't shoot goes...I would rather be judged by twelve than carried by six. If I feel that my life or the life of family etc. is threatened then I am going to do my best to put the guy in the ground before he puts me in the ground. Simple as that. We can work the rest of it out later.

Thank you. At least a few people understand.