Horse Trailer Camper

[2004LB7]

I am planning on picking up a gooseneck horse trailer to convert into a camper / boondock trailer

I am not a fan of the conventional or mass produced travel trailers. cheaply built, weak batteries, crappy plumbing, etc. i think i can put together a simple design that would out last any commercially build one. plus it would be a gooseneck trailer as opposed to the normally used 5th wheel so i could utilize the B&W hitch i already have. better articulation or rough roads

i plan on making it completely an off-the-grid style trailer. 150~200 gallon water tanks, composting toilet, 48 volt forklift battery, not sure yet if i will break battery into two 24 volt units wired in parallel or keep it 48 volts. two 24 volt packs will allow me to do better weight distribution by placing each one on opposite sides and not in the middle where i want walking space

i also want to pack the roof full of solar panels. i calculated out a max of 2000 watts of solar best case and 1200 watts worse case. my math seems to indicate i would need a minimum of 1200 watts of solar with something like 3 solar hours in the winter to keep the batteries topped off each day.

i also want to make it completely electric with no permanent gas or propane cooking, cooling heating or whatever most use the propane for. i was thinking of using a counter top single induction cook top and microwave for the times i couldn't cook everything outdoors over a fire. i would store food in a 5 cf chest freezer and 5cf chest cooler.

charging would be controlled via a Morningstar’s TriStar MPPT solar controller off of the solar panels. i was also thinking of either using a step up DC to DC converter to charge from the truck if needed or perhaps converting or purchasing a dedicated 24 or 48 volt alternator.

120/240 AC would come from a large pure sinewave inverter. haven't settled on a wattage yet. minimum of 2k watt but maybe a 3 or 4 kw but these can get pricing and inefficient at that range. i would install outlets around the inside all powered by the inverter. plus maybe some on the outside too.

i will insulate all of the walls, ceiling and floor with as high R value as i can afford. i am looking at doing a 4" spray in insulation right now but am afraid of it putting pressure on the panels and creating a bowed out or ballooning affect on the skin of the trailer.

attached is a quick mockup of what i was planing on doing

let me know if any of you have experience in doing something like this or have any pointers or suggestions.

 

[cjb2283]

Seems like a sweet setup. If its just you, looks like it will be nice. Couple things I see right off the bat are; you don't have any black or grey water holding tanks. Having the composting toilet will do away with the black tank but you still need grey for your sinks and shower. The problem coming from that could be that there may not be enough room below the trailer for a holding tank and then you need to enclose it and heat the underbelly if you plan on camping in colder months...but I am not very familiar with horse trailers...just what I have seen on the road. That brings up a question...where is your heater and venting going to go? AC? Having an all electric system will alleviate the need for propane but even RV boondockers still carry propane for their stove and fridges...my opinion is that propane fridges are more economical and get cooler quicker and are colder when operated off of propane instead of electricity, at least in my RV. IDK about freezers tho...or if they make standalone propane freezers. Obviously they make propane fridge/freezers. As far as your solar setup...I will not say anything about it as I don't know crap about them...but if you want/need more info or help with that I would turn to any RV Forum...there are a lot of very solar smart dudes out there. For the roof, you will want to leave room for at least one if not two roof vents with vent covers...one def in the bathroom and the other possibly over your kitchen/living area. Your batteries will need to be vented as well I believe. If I had the time, ability, and money to build my own amazing RV, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would love to see your finished project.

 

[2004LB7]

Thanks,

Yes, i want to eliminate the black tank. For gray water, i was thinking of building a raised floor of 4 or 6 inches and putting the tank in there next to one on of the doors. Since not all trailers have their doors in the exact same place i will have to make some adjustments as to the placment and size.

I did read through a bunch of other sites, rv forums, off the grid forums, etc. I know enough about electrical and solar sizing but wanted to double check my numbers.

I wanted to get away from propane because when/if that runs out everything stops that depends on it. No fridge, no cooking, no heat. Bit the sun always shines. I dont want to try and heat with electricity as it will burn up more power then i could generate. I was thinking perhaps a small wood stove or ???.

Yes the battery will be vented. I was planning on connecting the vent tubes from each cell and routing it out the side or back. The toilet and shower could probably be vented through a window on the side. I would either line it up with an existing window or add one. I dont think it will be a steamy shower as it doesn't have heated water. The water tanks will be indoors so it would be whatever temp that is.

If i have the room on the roof i may run some pipe up there to heat the water but in the winter it may just freeze so maybe not the best idea. Still in the works. Maybe some valves to divert the water

I am still debating on the ventilation. I want to maximize the solar on the roof and just one vent can throw it out of wack. The solar panels need to be hooked up with equal number of panels in series/parallel so if one panel goes away then you have a string of panels that wont equal the rest and cant be hooked up. If i wired them all in series then the voltage is very high and i would need to purchase a very expensive high voltage change controller.

I want to use the chest freezers as they are the most efficient electrical fridge or freezer. Propane is certainly the most efficient but no propane for me. Plus, as it sits in my driveway it could double as a second or backup fridge/freezer running continuously without any electrical bill or gas refills.

 

[2004LB7]

One thing i wanted to ask you guys who are versed in California's messed up DMV regulations is should i register the trailer as a travel trailer or camper or should i keep it as a horse trailer.

My thinking is that as a camper/travel trailer or what ever they are legally​ calling now, it affords some leeway as to the license requirements, weight, etc. But as a horse trailer i am not sure what the laws are for this. Is it elegable for "permanent" plates? Is one cheaper then the other?

How do other states treat travel trailers vs horse trailers if i was to travel to them?

Also. Attached is the trailer i have on my radar to purchase soon. Just shy of $7k

 

[chevor]

Sounds like a fun project:thumb:

 

[cjb2283]

Thanks,

Yes, i want to eliminate the black tank. For gray water, i was thinking of building a raised floor of 4 or 6 inches and putting the tank in there next to one on of the doors. Since not all trailers have their doors in the exact same place i will have to make some adjustments as to the placment and size.

I did read through a bunch of other sites, rv forums, off the grid forums, etc. I know enough about electrical and solar sizing but wanted to double check my numbers.

I wanted to get away from propane because when/if that runs out everything stops that depends on it. No fridge, no cooking, no heat. Bit the sun always shines. I dont want to try and heat with electricity as it will burn up more power then i could generate. I was thinking perhaps a small wood stove or ???.

Yes the battery will be vented. I was planning on connecting the vent tubes from each cell and routing it out the side or back. The toilet and shower could probably be vented through a window on the side. I would either line it up with an existing window or add one. I dont think it will be a steamy shower as it doesn't have heated water. The water tanks will be indoors so it would be whatever temp that is.

If i have the room on the roof i may run some pipe up there to heat the water but in the winter it may just freeze so maybe not the best idea. Still in the works. Maybe some valves to divert the water

I am still debating on the ventilation. I want to maximize the solar on the roof and just one vent can throw it out of wack. The solar panels need to be hooked up with equal number of panels in series/parallel so if one panel goes away then you have a string of panels that wont equal the rest and cant be hooked up. If i wired them all in series then the voltage is very high and i would need to purchase a very expensive high voltage change controller.

I want to use the chest freezers as they are the most efficient electrical fridge or freezer. Propane is certainly the most efficient but no propane for me. Plus, as it sits in my driveway it could double as a second or backup fridge/freezer running continuously without any electrical bill or gas refills.

Well done man. Sounds like you have a pretty good idea on what you want and need. Must have had this rattling around in your brain for quite some time. That trailer looks like a good doner trailer. What kind of timeline you looking at once you commit?

Not sure about laws and stuff but I would think if you can live in a trailer it would need to be registered as an RV. But that's just me thinking without researching.

 

[2004LB7]

I have had this on my mind for the better part of a year but put some more serious thought into it for that last few months such as doing the measurements, calculating the loads and charge times, researching mppt charge controllers, doing weight distribution calculations (see me thread on the Excel weight distribution calculator), searching for trailers on the internet, etc

 

[six5creed]

I have permanent plates on 2 trailers and in N.C. one of the questions for permanent plates is "does it have living quarters"? If so then you can't get them for it here. Wish you could cause I would have them on our camper, it's a big savings over time. My dad has them on his cattle trailer but it doesn't have living quarters in it.

 

[2004LB7]

I think it is the same here. Most travel trailers dont qualify for permanent plates. Horse trailers can get them due to the primary purpose is not to live in them but for transportation of the horse. At least that is how i understand it

 

[2004LB7]

Picked up the trailer today. Drove 9.5 hours through the night, picked it up, turned around and drove all the way back. First time towing a gooseneck. Towed nicely. Still need to practice backing up but love it so far

 

[2004LB7]

Well i thought i had the trailer weight issue figured out for drivers licensing. Basically any combination of truck and 5th wheel trailer that didn't exceed 26k lbs and not for commercial use was good to go with a basic class C license. But reading California's DMV's regulations on it (https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/dl648/dl648pt2) now makes me think that the gvwr of the truck can be up to 26k lbs and 5th wheel up to 15k lbs. This would total out to 41k lbs.

It states in the above website: With a Basic Class C license: A 2-axle vehicle with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs. or less. And You May Tow... 5th-wheel travel trailer exceeding 10,000 lbs. but not exceeding 15,000 lbs. GVWR, when towing is not for compensation

So is that how you read it? 26k lbs GCVWR is not the limit for class A or B or special license when towing a 5th wheel travel trailer but a possible limit of 41k lbs

So my 14k GVWR one ton truck + 14k GVWR gooseneck/5th wheel travel trailer together with a GCVWR of 28k lbs is ok for a basic class C license?

Dam, the number of threads on this subject are numerous but it is still confusing. Tells you how messed up it all is

 

[Dozerboy]

That would only apply to the state of CA probably. It's always been best to call your local tranpertation enforcement office. They will ask you the right question so you get the Corection answers.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[BlkMax]

I was taking a quick look at your layout, and assuming 8#/gallon for water and 7#/gallon for fuel (this is quick math weights, but close), you have 6260# over the gooseneck on that trailer (not including tank weight, etc.). Be careful with weight and balance. That seems like a lot of weight on the truck with the trailer axles all the way in the back. Just a thought...

 

[2004LB7]

I was taking a quick look at your layout, and assuming 8#/gallon for water and 7#/gallon for fuel (this is quick math weights, but close), you have 6260# over the gooseneck on that trailer (not including tank weight, etc.). Be careful with weight and balance. That seems like a lot of weight on the truck with the trailer axles all the way in the back. Just a thought...

attached is the calculations i come up with using excel. (remove the ".DOC" from the file name)

looks like i am sitting just over 3500 lbs. off course all of the other weights are rough estimates so I may be way off.

so far i have hauled just over 5000 lbs in the bed and it wasn't even on the secondary overloads.

 

[BlkMax]

My mistake, When I saw the 450 and 150, I thought that was in gallons, not pounds, I read the units wrong.

 

[2004LB7]

No problem. Always good to have someone look over the numbers even if small mistakes happen. Someone will eventually catch a big one and save my a$$

 

[2004LB7]

here is my latest plan for the trailer now that i have it and can start making real measurements and planning things out

 

[jlawles2]

What are your plans for grey and black water storage? Also do not see any LPG storage. You might need that for cooking, hot water, and gas refrigerator (if you plan on the one). What about a converter / battery charger? 24v is nice, but you may have issues finding appliances since most RV's are set to run on 12V.

220 gallons (1,800+ lbs)on water on the neck is quite a bit. You might want to stand them up if possible to minimize slosh and / or set them up to draw individual not in parallel.

 

[2004LB7]

Toilet will be a composting toilet so no black water. Gray water will be in a tank under the floor up front by the door. I dont know what size i will use yet.

If i use any propane it will be with a camping stove and nothing built in. Otherwise i plan on cooking (minimally/as needed) with electricity. 2kw solar on the roof. The charge controler and inverter will be back with the batteries on the wall. I may wire the batteries in series for 48 volts to lower the current and thus the wire gauge. This will make the charger work less hard too. But... If it gets to hard to find a 48v inverter or it cost too much i may stick with 24 volts as those are easy to find. Most everything will run on the 120 volt inverter power. Dedicated items like lighting will be right off the batteries.

No RV/propane fridge here. Standard chest cooler running on 120v from the inverter. I sized the solar panels for winter charging with my planed loads. So in the summer i will have more then enough power. I may even put a small 3k btu AC in.

The tongue on the trailer is rated at 4k lbs and my truck can do quite a bit more than that with minimal squatting. I was planning on valving each water tank so i can drain one at a time or all at once. I didn't really think about the sloshing. Good point. I was thinking to drain then all the same so the weight distribution would be even. I will measures out the space to see if i can get them upright. That would help cut down sloshing and i could draw evenly

Was not really planning on any hot water but maybe I will run some plumbing on the roof to heat a small amount of water. Otherwise i will be a cold shower

 

[2004LB7]

Well you got me curious so i went out and measured the space. I will have about 4 inches above the water tanks. It is tight. Wont have much room for plumbing connections but i think it will work

Having them upright will allow more water to fit and be drawn from the barrels.. Takes up less floor space too.