Has everyone seen this newsletter? EFI

blk smoke lb7

<-----Lots of green $
Nov 8, 2010
5,694
0
36
57
belvidere,ill
But really it is a JOKE but a mere way to ROB money for NOTHING. Like I said their parameters set on their equipment that they allow are off the clock high so why bother to attempt to govern the air? It was a joke back in the 80's in CT when the program started and still is. Like I said a Nissan was put on the rollers for the test back then and the Nox I believe came up ZERO. You pass. How can that be? IMO it's worthless but a way to suck more money from you with the premise of clean air. But as you stated you cannot create enough pollutant to signal a fail. Worthless/ Junk

I'm not sure which is worse equipment that is accurate or equipment that lets you get away? Because you know they will never shut down that cash cow so bitching about it would most likely get you more stringent c.o. equipment not get it gone.It sure sucks but what are ya gonna do?
 

GMC_2002_Dmax

The Still Master
tony your LBZ might pass CT's absurdly easy particulate matter tests (come on, they allow 20% opacity, thats like 3x as bad as all the smokey casino busses we see all over I95), but it would fail miserably at a gov't level NOx test.

Come on, if GM could keep particulate and NOx in check while making 450hp or whatever your LBZ makes, dont you think they would have done it? I know you're a smart guy, but GM Powertrain also has some smart guys working there......

and BTW Tony. Something must be wrong with your buddys truck, or you arent telling us the whole story.........(like maybe your buddys truck was throwing EGR codes, but you conveniently left that part of the story out to make emissions tests look stupid????)........CT measures opacity and codes. Unless you have a sock shoved into the intake tube, there is no way in HELL a stock duramax with cat/egr/etc in place is going to produce 20% OPACITY. NONE.

ben

Calling me a liar ........:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

The only part of the story I left out was his name and address.

If he had any codes, if he had any issues he would have stopped by to have them scanned........he asked me why I though it failed, I stated that I didn't know, if it isn't coding and isn't running bad then beat the shit out of it for a week or so and take it back in, he did and it failed.

So I convinced him to get a blocker, remove the POS stock exhaust and I put a small tune in for him and guess what..........it f*cking passed.

If you were in CT I would offer the truck to you to mess with, but since you fled to the west I guess you'll just have to take my word for it.

And as far as the test we have in CT, I could give two shits what kind of test it is, it's the one our, or should I say "MY" state says we have to pass.

:roflmao:
 

duratothemax

<--- slippery roads
Aug 28, 2006
7,139
10
0
Wyoming
"since I fled to the west"

Whats that supposed to mean tony?

You're the one always complaining about how much CT sucks, how you're gonna move, etc.... yet you dont do anything about it.

Well guess what, I was sick of CT too, so I actually did something about it and "FLED TO THE WEST", and now you're giving me a hard time?

Come on gimmie a break. :hug:
 

bluessmax

Tabasco Injected!
Nov 4, 2010
1,143
6
38
Lake Charles, la
Come on now Ben and tony... Let me get in y'allzzz biznassss! What you 2 need to do is come on down to Louisiana and rock it with us for a little while! While your down I promise some good fist pumping times and not only will you 2 appreciate where you live after the Mosquitos have near bitten your ass off, but you will be friends with memories!

Damn, I should be dr Phil of the drama max forum.. Hell, ol Josh Harrison might as well make the trip too!! Lol

Me. Mike L is invited too, if he can hang rocking with Brad.... Lol!!!!

Just trying to put some fun in a dark thread guys!
 

Gone Nomad

On a Time Out
Sep 29, 2011
72
0
0
I notice that EFLive only has the latest versions of their software available for download.

Have anyone ever found any way to download previous versions?

I assume that every single previous version must be available somewhere, though?
 

Gone Nomad

On a Time Out
Sep 29, 2011
72
0
0
Yeah, I already downloaded the updates dated June 22, 2012 about a week ago, when I first learned of this upcoming change.

I keep multiple copies on various different backup media.

The last time I had updated was (ironically) exactly one year prior to that, and of course those versions are much older (EFILiveV7.5.7.180 and
EFILiveV8.2.1.170).


EFILive seems to remove older versions from the server.

e.g.:
The current url is:
http://download.efilive.com/Software/V7.5/EFILiveV7.5.7.211_Setup.exe

but this old url doesn't work now:
http://download.efilive.com/Software/V7.5/EFILiveV7.5.7.180_Setup.exe

Going forward though, I was just wondering if there was a source for the older versions. I guess the only obvious answer is they would be available from the thousands of users who downloaded them when each version was the latest.
 

Gone Nomad

On a Time Out
Sep 29, 2011
72
0
0
In an effort to better understand this issue myself, and help others understand it too and hopefully save the time it takes to read through page after page of largely irrelevant posts, I have compiled EFILive's posts (GPMX or cindy@efilive, except for the last one which is a pertinent post from a user) from this thread, and posted them below. I have shown what I believe are key points in red.

#1 posted by: GMPX (Site Admin)

As many of you may have heard or read about in the last few days, our next software update will contain restrictions to the available calibrations for diesel engines. More specifically for the LMM and 6.7L Cummins that have a DPF system fitted.
USA based customers will no longer have access to alter the calibrations affecting the operation and diagnostics of these emissions controlling components. For EFILive users outside of the USA this restriction will not apply and you should notice no change in what you can and can't tune. There will not be separate USA and International versions of the software, there will still only be one version for downloading.

We would like to make this thread the official place to ask questions regarding these changes, however, if the questions are nothing more than you venting your dissatisfaction about this then the post will be removed.

Please read THIS as a starting point.

Based on the ongoing discussions in this thread, below is a few key items, an FAQ of sorts that you might miss reading through the various pages.

Your existing V2's, Autocals etc will continue to work fine with the current public releases, V7.5.7 Build 211 & V8.2.1 Build 203.
If you update the firmware in the V2/AC to that in the next release it might not work correctly with older software, it's always been this way with each new release anyway.
For any existing tune files you have, the tuning changes will remain untouched, all new tune files created with the next update will not have access to the DPF related functions for USA customers.
It's still your choice if you update or not, we aren't forcing you, we aren't sneaking the restrictions in.
There will only be one version of the EFILive software, there is no secret 'international' version USA users can install.
The restrictions have nothing to do with your registration details on the forum or with your V2 warranty cards.
Sending EFILive staff Emails and PM's asking how to get around this will simply be ignored, no response whatsoever.


#13 posted by: GMPX (Site Admin)
Originally Posted by catman3126
HMM so if theres only one download how will it be different for what region we live in?
I would guess it will be because of where each individual has registered their V2's and there will be programming in the update that will recognize the loacation of registration and makes its so the deletetion ability will not be in the update? also so if we don't update to the new software will we be able to still buy licences? thanks for the information.
Obviously we aren't about to explain how we have region specific restrictions in place, but it has nothing to do with your V2's, so ordering a new V2 from outside of the USA and registering it with EFILive from Paris, France won't magically open things up for you if you are still tuning in the USA. We also didn't want to be generating individual install packages based on peoples location, that would be ridiculous, not only that, non USA versions would be up on torrent sites the moment they were released.

Originally Posted by rennat_2006
I know this is the diesel section but also curious about the gassers since im using mine for LS Swaps into muscle cars if they will be any changes with them?
Currently there is no plans to restrict any functions from the LS side of things. There is a very different mindset with the gas side of tuning though, the people who are going to the trouble of fitting an LS motor in to an old car probably do so because they are wanting to make good clean power, maybe even run it on E85, just like a 2010 Silverado gasser would. The legalities of doing this probably varies state by state in the US, so you probably need to investigate that yourself.

Originally Posted by cumminsDK
How will we continue to support customers whose trucks are already deleted and no longer own a Dpf?
The changes will not affect existing tunes, we can't wind back or undo what has already been done to a file prior to this new update.

Originally Posted by z79outlaw
Are we going to lose more features and support in the future?
Unfortunately we are not in a position to answer that with any certainty, we aren't the rule makers on this one, we've decided to try to play ball like everyone else has.


#20 posted by: GMPX (Site Admin)
Originally Posted by DURAtotheMAX
If we are content with what we already have as far as tables/features/etc....can we just keep the current version to retain EGR/DPF modification ability? (build 211)
Absolutely, this is not a forced or surprise attack update, if you are happy tuning with what you have now then avoid future updates. However, there is of course CSP5 coming soon, so you would miss out on that.

Originally Posted by DURAtotheMAX
Or is there going to be some block in there so all USA people will *have* to update and be forced to give up EGR/DPF parameters?
No updates will be enforced, no features will be crippled on older versions, but with firmware and software being interlinked you can't go back once you've updated.

Originally Posted by THEFERMANATOR
How will this apply to vehicles such as designated race trucks that are not required to have a DPF and are not registered in any way for road useage? What about for retrofits of putting a newer diesel into an older body style that is emissions exempt, or the DPF is not required for the older truck to meet it's emssions output(like my SUBURBAN which meets all emssions criteria for 95 without any of this equipment)? Just curious if this will affect all USA customers even the ones who can LEGALLY remove the emissions equipment for there intended purposes.
And this is where we hit a brick wall I'm sorry to say because we have no solution for genuine cases like this. I'm just throwing this out there as food for thought as a potential solution long term.
Here in Australia there is companies that convert vehicles from Left Hand Drive to Right Hand Drive. Our laws state that if a car is less than 25 years old and you want to drive it on the road then it must be converted to RHD. These conversion companies have to go through an engineering approval process, so once they've done a car that meets the authorities standards they are free to convert as many cars as they need without further approval.
Perhaps in the case of genuine race trucks, engine swap companies etc there might need to be a system in place where you can apply to the authorities for exemptions?

Originally Posted by catman3126
what if a person who has efi live in the USA has had enough of this epa stuff and decides to move to a country that does not have restrictions like the USA can this person get their efi live registers in a different country to be able to re-enable the deletion section?
Sort of, yes, no, maybe. Again, I'm not really going to divulge on how this works.


#22 posted by: GMPX (Site Admin)
Originally Posted by DURAtotheMAX
alright good, so...reading between the lines...if we just decide to keep Tuning tool build 211 "forever", but say we upgrade the boot block or firmware in our V2 at some point, we wont be screwing ourselves/shooting ourselves in the foot, if you understand what I mean Ross?
If you upgrade the bootblock and firmware in the V2 to a version used in the upcoming software releases then the V2 may not work correctly should you stick build 211 back on your PC.

Originally Posted by cumminsDK
Thanks for the fast reply, I should have been more specific will my deleted 6.7 customers continue to have to deal with dinging?
I am continuing to work on a fix for the chime, as the chime is annoying for several other non emissions related warnings I don't think there is an emissions related problem with disabling it.

Originally Posted by THEFERMANATOR
I still don't see why you have changed your stance on this matter all of a sudden from the last time when HPTUNERS removed the function?
At least we are telling everyone first

Originally Posted by THEFERMANATOR
The burden should be on the end user, which is why I thought the disclaimer was there before you could do a flash.
This absolutely falls in to the same category as gun control, Smith & Wesson are not responsible for how their product is used by each person who buys a gun. Just like us, or even someone selling EFILive isn't the person that may remove the DPF and creates a tune to allow the truck to still run. However, we have a situation where YouTube is full of smoking late model Diesels on the highway filling some poor grandma's Prius with soot. Now if Grandma was at the local drag strip that is a different story, it 'could' be an unregistered race truck doing this, but unfortunately nearly every video out there is clearly not a race truck.
I'm not trying to play the moral police here, but you know 'whoever' came up with the concept to burn more Diesel to make them cleaner needed to have a few more drinks and think that one over, it sounds ludicrous, but that is the rule that the OEM's must play by, that is the rules the US Govt currently enforces. Us sticking it to the man by allowing it to be abused is not going to fix the actual problem is it? And this is perhaps why there is probably no DPF delete tuners left on the market. We were probably the last because we wanted to take the time to think this out on a global scale so our customers in Dubai, Australia, Sweden, and so on weren't affected.
By the way, the 'off road' disclaimer on products as I understand it is now worthless.


#24 posted by: GMPX (Site Admin)
Originally Posted by jmaz2689
When should we expect to see this update?
We are doing internal beta testing at the moment, however, as this update is going to include the CSP5 enhancement for the 5.9L Cummins we are delaying it a little bit until there is a variety of switching solutions available.
There was no plans to do a specific update just for the restricted calibrations, it will just be included with our next major release, best guess, early to mid January for the public update.


#26 posted by: GMPX (Site Admin)
Originally Posted by jmaz268
Thanks, that should be plenty of time for everyone to bury a copy of the software in the backyard for future use.

Also, Say in a year my V2 gets broken or misplaced and I have to buy a new one or have it fixed by you guys.

Will the new one be on the bootblock/firmware version that is incompatible with Emissions related deletes
When we build product they are shipped with the current public release, so once this goes public all new hardware and software will be the new versions, we won't be shipping old software.


#29 posted by: GMPX (Site Admin)
Originally Posted by catman3126
It would be awesome if you would release the CSP update before the deletion disabled update? would that be possible?
Nope, the cal restrictions are done, all CSP5 OS's are not.


#31 posted by: GMPX (Site Admin)
Originally Posted by catman3126
will we still be able to buy a stream licence for a non updated 211 build V2? for say an LMM/LBZ?
Yes absolutely, nothing changes there, all licenses and streams are still valid regardless if they were purchased 4 years ago or next year.
I'll try to summarise in point form a few key things in the original post.


#34 posted by: GMPX (Site Admin)
Originally Posted by MadMaxx61
Heres one for you I live in Canada.
Say I buy tunes from a tuner that is in the USA. If I open the tune (not locked) on my computer can I make the changes for the DPF/EGR to the tune and save it?
Yes, because you are in Canada, until the US EPA is able to enforce their laws on you guys then you will have no restrictions (maybe they already can? I don't know).
A tune file created in the USA is not 'infected' with the restrictions, the tune file is the same on any computer no matter where it's located. Unfortunately this does mean that USA tuners selling mail order tunes outside of the USA will need to give the end user (out of country) access to the tune if they plan on messing with any DPF related items.


#37 posted by: GMPX (Site Admin)
Originally Posted by SwedeBurb
If a person in the US sends me a tune file, I can edit whatever I want and then send it back to him for flashing. All my updates will get flashed in since they are stored in the file... he just can't make any further changes to the region locked parameters without my help. Correct?
Ok, so that falls in to the same category of bypassing region protected DVD's.
Say you want to buy the 'Larry The Cable Guy - Git-R-Done' DVD from Amazon USA, it's a Region 1 DVD, but you live in Region 2 so it won't play. So you ask your friend in the USA to make a copy of it and change it to Region 2 and then send it over. Obviously Amazon and whoever owns the distribution rights to that DVD have no control over that. What I am trying to say is that we have implemented a system that we feel is going to stop DPF systems being bypassed in the ECM for USA based customers, if people try to figure out a method around our restriction then we certainly aren't going to be involved in guiding them because at that point they are guilty of software hacking.


#56 posted by: cindy@efilive
Originally Posted by WyoFreeride
Will this affect your development for new ECMs (ie CM2200) that aren't supported yet? Will the emissions stuff be addressed on those new ECMs for areas outside the US still?
At this point our development priority hasn't changed, but we will do a full review of planned support and order of support early in the new year.

Originally Posted by DURAtotheMAX
This is what horrifies me....

I have duramax stream licenses, cummins tuning license, etc... So basically my V2 is "worth" a lot more than most of the V2's out there....so yes I do take extra special care of it and try not to let it out of my sight.

BUT!!!! God forbid, the thing breaks or something and I have to have it fixed (and then I send it to be fixed, and then you guys put the latest firmware/boot block on it).....would it be possible to downgrade the firmware/boot block on the V2 to the old version that still works with Build 211 tuning tool???

thats what scares me....I can deal with running Build 211 forever (I only tune very few cummins's, so not getting access to CSP5 isnt the end of the world for me), what if the above scenario happens (V2 breaks or something) and I'm "forced" into updating firmware/boot block????
If your V2 needs to be fixed or replaced, you won't be 'forced' to do anything. If you chose to have it repaired through an authorized agent or replaced using the license recovery scheme your unit will be returned to you with current bootblock and firmware. Bootblock/firmware cannot be downgraded.


#58 posted by: cindy@efilive
Originally Posted by DURAtotheMAX
Alright so basically if I need to have my V2 repaired (or replaced due to loss/theft) down the road after the "non-DPF" updates come out...I'll be out of luck, because when I get my repaired V2 back it will have the newest "non-DPF" firmware in it?

Sorry If im misunderstanding you Cindy, I just want to make sure im following you correctly.
You understand correctly, we won't install old firmware/bootblocks, and we won't change our software structure to allow those to be downgraded.


#65 posted by: user "schwoch1"
Originally Posted by davematthews
Come on guy's quit asking questions they can't answer. This isn't something they like. Its bound to hurt business in one form or fashion. However, the world isn't going to end. The sky is still there and isn't going to fall.
Read between the lines and you'll have your answer to everything you desire. Its not that complicated.
I would like to thank EFI for giving us what we have. And hope that in the future we will still be a valuable region to continue to support and improve on...
I agree 100%. I am guessing anyone with half a brain will be able to figure out how to be out of the country while tuning Luckily, I am only a 7 hour drive from Canada, so I guess I will have to use that option every time I need to help out that person with their 'race truck'....

But seriously, now a days, it only takes people a matter of time to figure out how to bypass anything, it is just going to be one of them deals where no one will talk about it in public. All the deletes are still going to happen in the US, but when the EPA looks at the program the ability will be gone.
Again, just my opinion!
I hope this helps somebody else, because it took a while to capture and properly format all the posts shown above.
It sure beats the heck out of wading through page after page, and should cut the time required to less than half required to learn what we need to know, all of which (except for the last post) is straight from EFILive.
 
Last edited:

Gone Nomad

On a Time Out
Sep 29, 2011
72
0
0
OK, I understand that these new restrictions on US users will prevent them from making changes to the EGR and DPF sections of the tune file. US users of upcoming new versions won't be able to change those parameters.

While uploading or downloading a tune file requires the Flashscan V2 hardware,
making changes to the tune is done strictly on the PC itself, without needing the Flashscan to be connected at that time?
Is that right or wrong?

If the above statement is true, I have what I think is a pretty good guess as to how this is going to work.
 
Last edited:

catman3126

Ehhh?.... You don't say?
Jul 24, 2012
2,636
0
36
NE Oregon
While uploading or downloading a tune file requires the Flashscan V2 hardware,
making changes to the tune is done strictly on the PC itself, without needing the Flashscan to be connected at that time?
Is that right or wrong?

If the above statement is true, I have what I think is a pretty good guess as to how this is going to work.[/QUOTE]

Yes on the first one
yes on the second one
I have been using BBF (black box flashing and reading and I like it much better then using the laptop. i just load the tunes on an SD card and put it in the v2 without the v2 hooked to a laptop.
 

Gone Nomad

On a Time Out
Sep 29, 2011
72
0
0
BTW, there is no actual physical location information available within the operating systems I am familiar with (Win2000 and WinXP), so if EFILive's scheme depends on that, it would only work on newer operating systems (if they have location info in them - and Microsoft's registration process just might do that on Win7). But a vanilla Win2000 or WinXP install, on a newly wiped partition on a PC that has never been connected to the internet, has no location info available if the person doing the install doesn't manually enter anything. I just checked the EULA on an XP PC, and it's not US-specific. As far as I can determine from any of the OS installers I looked at, they aren't US-specific either.

It's possible that it could be as simple as future versions of EFILive software requiring an internet connection so that the installer could report the IP (and thus, the location), to EFILive's server.
Or, they could also make future versions do that every time they launch, or otherwise go into Demo mode. But since EFILive's GMPX states: "...ordering a new V2 from outside of the USA and registering it with EFILive from Paris, France won't magically open things up for you if you are still tuning in the USA" then if they can't pick up location info from the operating system, my guess is the latter of those two is more likely. If that seems like it would be an unrealistic PITA, well, it might be, but these days, many different mainstream packages require an internet connection to install them, as part of the registration process. Some publishers used to provide an alternate way to do it for computers that don't have internet connection, but that's rapidly falling by the wayside.

I guess this begs this question for EFILive: "Will upcoming updated versions of the EFILive Tune Tool software require an internet connection every time the program is launched?"


Even without any workarounds, though...
since all other aspects of tune files except EGR & DPF will be modifiable by US users,
and EFILive's scheme doesn't remove EGR & DPF attributes from the tune files (just blocks US users' access to them),
and since EGR & DPF on/off modification is simple, and that capability will still be available to users in other countries,
and since tune files are small and easily transferred electronically...


When you see other posts saying "read between the lines" those are some of the lines to read between.

BTW, Since EFILive doesn't particularly like the speculation, if mods or anyone else thinks maybe this speculation doesn't belong out in the open, just say so...
 
Last edited:

catman3126

Ehhh?.... You don't say?
Jul 24, 2012
2,636
0
36
NE Oregon
Has anyone recently like in the last week bought EFI Live and tried to do a dpf delete? just heard the EFI already did the update to do away with the dpf delete section of the tune in the US but it still says June 22, 2012, so has it been added to the old update so that when it is downloaded it will be in the old one?