H&S Trying to Blow Up The Ford

[catman3126]

biggest waste of time ever. I cant believe I got sucked into watching that whole thing.

Almost 900hp on stock injectors? 15* of timing and 2600uS pulsewidth? What, did they have dmitri running the dyno or something?

Why is it every other 6.7 ford on the internet has this (below) happen before ~600rwhp? Did ford give H&S a magic powerstroke????

HAha I know the guy driving this when this happened. LOL

 

[Mike L.]

The LML weighs 700 lb more than it's earlier counter part.

 

[LWATSON]

That gives it a 3/10's disadvantage or maybe more?

 

[hondarider552]

All I know is that I wanna dyno on that one! :thumb:

 

[Texas Chevy]

I will say the front end on that LML held up good. Did he have sleeves?

 

[fishsmith]

Their ford probably had a super duper metal oil pan. All our ford diesels have the crappy plastic ones.

 

[dirty_max]

so what ended up breaking? i didnt get to see the whole thing

 

[Ne-max]

Trans limped out.

 

[LMLTuner]

bwaahahaha 790 hp on 15* of timing and 2600us, stock injectors? Now I have heard it all.

Guess what this STOCK 2011 Powerstroke fuel map makes for peak HP Ben?

Yep, you guessed it. A 2011 Powerstroke in factory form will dyno between 330hp and 370hp on nearly any dyno in the world (even the H&S dyno ). Can you see the numbers in the bottom right corner of that table? Commanded fuel amount on the 2011 Powerstroke in factory form is going to be about 115mm^3. So if you would like me to do a quick linearization for you, we can assume the truck is running at 958 micro seconds duration under full pressure and full load.

So, since I assume you know a little math... perhaps you could help me out. :hello:

If 958 us duration = 350 peak hp, then what is the potential power output at 2600 duration? (assuming available air is NOT an issue - hence the use of nitrous on our testing).

*** Hint, it's over 900 ponies ***

 

[duratothemax]

Guess what this STOCK 2011 Powerstroke fuel map makes for peak HP Ben?

Yep, you guessed it. A 2011 Powerstroke in factory form will dyno between 330hp and 370hp on nearly any dyno in the world (even the H&S dyno ). Can you see the numbers in the bottom right corner of that table? Commanded fuel amount on the 2011 Powerstroke in factory form is going to be about 115mm^3. So if you would like me to do a quick linearization for you, we can assume the truck is running at 958 micro seconds duration under full pressure and full load.

So, since I assume you know a little math... perhaps you could help me out. :hello:

If 958 us duration = 350 peak hp, then what is the potential power output at 2600 duration? (assuming available air is NOT an issue - hence the use of nitrous on our testing).

*** Hint, it's over 900 ponies ***

maybe next time dont cut off half the screen shot bentley.

 

[LMLTuner]

maybe next time dont cut off half the screen shot bentley.

HUH? :thumb:
What would that change? You want to see where the truck runs at no load? I hate to inform you, but peak power (the type we are talking about in this thread), is made at full load.

EDIT: There you go sir, the FULL map for your viewing pleasure. The original picture should now be updated..... even though it changes nothing regarding my previous posts and calculations.

Perhaps next time you should have more knowledge on a subject before making ridiculous accusations?

 

[DAVe3283]

Those are pretty big stock injectors in the PowerStroke, then. Which is nice. But, from everything I have seen, doubling your pulsewidth (even with tons of air, in my case), does NOT come close to doubling your power. I wish it did.

Perhaps next time you should have more knowledge on a subject before making ridiculous accusations?

LOL!!! Oh here we go...
Your 4th post mocks a guy with over 6,000 posts, sells custom electronics for the Duramax, has the ONLY GMT-800 Duramax in existence with Stabilitrack, etc, etc, etc. And yet he has no knowledge on tuning and diesels... :spit:

 

[LMLTuner]

Those are pretty big stock injectors in the PowerStroke, then. Which is nice. But, from everything I have seen, doubling your pulsewidth (even with tons of air, in my case), does NOT come close to doubling your power. I wish it did.

LOL!!! Oh here we go...
Your 4th post mocks a guy with over 6,000 posts, sells custom electronics for the Duramax, has the ONLY Duramax in existence with Stabilitrack, etc, etc, etc. And yet he has no knowledge on tuning and diesels... :spit:

Who said we are claiming an exact linear calculation of fuel delivery to HP? Not I. By a linear calculation we would have made near 950HP at 2600us. I will be the first to admit that volumetric efficiency will come into play quickly at high horsepower levels. We made 750HP @ 2600us. Then I added 3 degrees of timing at peak, and ran 2800us (884HP)... Yet we still have guys that doubt it? The proof is in the facts I have presented in front of you.

Since when does post count constitute knowledge? :roflmao: I have no doubts Ben is a smart man, but does he know it all? No sir. I am simply pointing out flaws in his logic so that you may all understand that what some believe as "fact" on a forum, is often far from the truth.

 

[Kappa9012]

I don't believe either of the videos posted here... That duramax had stock f'n tires and that sled didn't look like it was even loaded, just didn't look right at all.

And maybe the ford did make that power, maybe not, but why don't we see a ton of these out in the street, track or at the pulls... if twin cp3 errr cp4's?? and a single turbo is all it takes, then it seems like everyone would be on that like flies on SH!t... pretty cheap and simple recipe..

 

[DAVe3283]

Who said we are claiming an exact linear calculation of fuel delivery to HP? Not I. By a linear calculation we would have made near 950HP at 2600us. I will be the first to admit that volumetric efficiency will come into play quickly at high horsepower levels. We made 750HP @ 2600us. Then I added 3 degrees of timing at peak, and ran 2800us (884HP)... Yet we still have guys that doubt it? The proof is in the facts I have presented in front of you.

No one said linear, but it was implied, especially with the "a little math" and "potential power output" statements you made before. Because getting an accurate estimate requires a lot of knowledge of the engine dynamics, and complex math. So when you said "potential", it was a simple leap to figure you meant linear.

Since when does post count constitute knowledge? :roflmao: I have no doubts Ben is a smart man, but does he know it all? No sir. I am simply pointing out flaws in his logic so that you may all understand that what some believe as "fact" on a forum, is often far from the truth.

Post count does not constitute knowledge, but it shows someone's been around the block, so to speak. But I also listed some of what Ben did, which does matter.

And like you said, what is listed as "fact" on a forum, often isn't. Which is why people are questioning the "facts" you presented, and trying to put them in context.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but what it seems people are wondering is what the dyno reads for a bone stock truck. And what would that 884HP read on a different, more well known (in the Duramax community) dyno? Maybe higher, probably lower, but how much? I don't think anyone is calling you a liar, or there are any doubts that the numbers claimed actually came out of the dyno. We just want a reference!

I am personally very impressed with how much power the stock 6.7 engine (and transmission!) holds. I wish the stock Allison held 2x stock torque.

 

[LMLTuner]

I don't believe either of the videos posted here... That duramax had stock f'n tires and that sled didn't look like it was even loaded, just didn't look right at all.

And maybe the ford did make that power, maybe not, but why don't we see a ton of these out in the street, track or at the pulls... if twin cp3 errr cp4's?? and a single turbo is all it takes, then it seems like everyone would be on that like flies on SH!t... pretty cheap and simple recipe..

Couldn't tell you anything about the sled pull video, as that was not me. But regardless of what the video looks like, I thought the poster said he beat a bunch of other trucks? I would assume an easy track, or a lightly loaded sled would be light and easy across the board for all trucks that pull it? He still out-pulled many others, proving that he is making great power as compared to them.

As far as being cheap and easy on the Ford.... Well, not so much. If you consider custom fabricating your own hardware for a dual injection pump kit, spending hundreds of hours reverse engineering the EDC17 ECM to be able to control both those pumps, then custom fabricating a single turbo and wastegate setup as cheap and easy, then I would love to see your truck.

 

[LMLTuner]

No one said linear, but it was implied, especially with the "a little math" and "potential power output" statements you made before. Because getting an accurate estimate requires a lot of knowledge of the engine dynamics, and complex math. So when you said "potential", it was a simple leap to figure you meant linear.

Post count does not constitute knowledge, but it shows someone's been around the block, so to speak. But I also listed some of what Ben did, which does matter.

And like you said, what is listed as "fact" on a forum, often isn't. Which is why people are questioning the "facts" you presented, and trying to put them in context.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but what it seems people are wondering is what the dyno reads for a bone stock truck. And what would that 884HP read on a different, more well known (in the Duramax community) dyno? Maybe higher, probably lower, but how much? I don't think anyone is calling you a liar, or there are any doubts that the numbers claimed actually came out of the dyno. We just want a reference!

I am personally very impressed with how much power the stock 6.7 engine (and transmission!) holds. I wish the stock Allison held 2x stock torque.

Understood. We are on the same page. There are others in this thread that have flat out called H&S liars, and quickly have been corrected. Yet those same "knowledgeable" people continue to stick their nose into business that they have no clue what really goes on behind the scenes.

 

[JoshH]

It isn't lying; it's marketing...

 

[dracing70]

It isn't lying; it's marketing...

X2 Their dynamometer skills may be lacking but the marketing skills are spot on and worth taking lessons from :thumb: 850+??? NFW!

 

[LMLTuner]

So I guess taking a truck that makes 600HP on fuel, adding two 0.120 size nitrous jets backed by 900+ bottle pressure wont make 800+ HP? Explain where we are "marketing" please.

Doubt what you will, but the truck did another 850/1800 run in Colorado just last weekend in front of a live crowd. While I know that the ATS dyno has a large correction factor (so I doubt the truck was making as much power as it was in St. George - We made some changes to the wastegate system that I think set us back), you cannot dispute the fact that it still makes very good power. Take for instance, a stock 6.7L Powerstroke with only a tuner installed. That same day at ATS made 460HP corrected (exactly on par with what it would on most other dynos in the country). So I dare say that the H&S truck was easily making over 750/1500 uncorrected. Yes.... STOCK transmission, and some sneaky calibration changes to hold the extra torque.

This run was from about 65 mph to 120 mph at full load on a Mustang dyno. :woott:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaSXcndYOY0