GM Ponders Reviving 4.5-liter Duramax V-8 Diesel

[billygoat7c]

it all comes down to what the upgrade price is. If is it 7-9k like in the HD's it wont sell much IMO, but if it was 4-5k i do think it could be successful. I believe most people on average drive something like 12000 miles per year. I think the mileage could be realistic if you drove at the speed limit and just cruised down the highway because in the LBZ i have gotten 22mpg hand calc'd driving that way. Most of the time it is 19-20 highway, but a smaller motor in a lighter vehicle could do very well. I also think this has potential in the suburban/avalanche vehicles. Just have to wait and see i guess.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Also I think the 4.5L would be a better match for the van's. Look at how successful the SPRINTER vans were when they first came out. There is a market, it is just getting it out there to the right consumer. I agree with Ben that I don't think the average person would want one, but fleet useage could pay off. The biggest problem with diesel was made PAINFULLY obvious when the bailout of the US car companies came about, too many people still think of US cars as being the old sleds of the 70's and the ugly econo boxes of the 80's. They still remember the blunder that GM made when they tried to take the 350 and make it into a diesel. It wasn't a bad engine really, but it had ALOT of shortfalls in it that tarnished diesels image for MANY MANY years. Until the DURAMAX came out a high performance diesel was a chipped 24 valve CUMMINS backed up with a NV4500 trans, now look where we are. If they market it right and don't get greedy with the mark-up, diesels could stand a VERY good chance.

 

[DougSmith]

yea and 10 years ago, no one thought that a 2L tdi would get 50 plus mpg either, but today that is commonplace.

The 4.5 DMax could easily get that mileage in a truc kthat weighs in at under 5,000lbs. I get 20 mpg on an LBZ and mine was scaled at a flying J at 8,200lbs, travel wegiht. Tool box and all the extras inside. So If I was to drop 3,000lbs out of my truck I could hit 25 easy. So a little diesel, with a way more efficicent flow and engine concept could not get that kind of mileage when attached to a new tranny designed for the engine? Man, 15 years ago, who would have thought that a 400HP chipped Dmax like mine would get 20??? The future is here, waiting for refinment, all it takes is the balls to do it and put it on the market. VW, is betting on it, Mercedes is betting on it. I also heard that Audi is vamping up their diesel expports to the US, just how much longer do you think it will take before OUR companies catch on to what the rest of the world is doing? We are once again, going to be behind, and then go bankrupt.

Also with the invention of that Monster Diesel crap, just put that in the 4.5 and WHAMO!! you got easilt 30 mpg towing!!!:thumb:

 

[rick67]

Carbon Motors is an upstart manufacturer in Connersville In. They make police cars. They recently signed a contract with BMW for diesel engines.

 

[Iceman56]

Or 28 empty in a Tahoe. If I didnt care about vehicles and going fast, pulling, and just having power like most people, I sure as hell wouldnt spend the extra coin just get a Diesel, thats how most of America feels eggsack, Ben is right on this one. Most people also have no intention on keeping a vehicle for 10 - 12 years or have any kind of connection or feeling of sentiment towards there vehicles. Most people dont drive 35,000 miles a year in new vehicles, and most wouldnt end up keeping a diesel long enough to break even on the intial price difference, and your forgetting to factor the interest rate on that extra 7,000-9,000 you'd pay for that 4.5l and add that towards the price, most times people dont end up with 0% financing or buying a car in cash.

I think your forgetting something.... RESALE.... You don't think the Diesel will have better resale what do you think the difference is between a 05 duramax with 100,000 miles is compared to a 05 6.0 gasser with 100,000 miles?

 

[z79outlaw]

I think your forgetting something.... RESALE.... You don't think the Diesel will have better resale what do you think the difference is between a 05 duramax with 100,000 miles is compared to a 05 6.0 gasser with 100,000 miles?

Good point I missed that, but still how many vehicles are traded in at bottom dollar anyways?

 

[duratothemax]

quite frankly I dont really think today's buyers really think about resale when they buy a vehicle. I KNOW it sounds stupid and un-beleiveable...and you guys think im crazy for saying that.

but think about it. Do you think Jenny Soccermom and Bill Contractor give a shit how much he/shes gonna get for her new suburban/half ton silverado that he/she just bought when he/she trades it in in 5 years? Or in the contractors case hes probably just gonna run it into the ground...so it REALLY doesnt matter to him. And dont bother with the argument "WELL a diesel engine is gonna last longer, you forgot about that ben!!!", because that doesnt mean anything today with the current GM Gen III/IV small block V8's. They will go just as long as a duramax.

ben

 

[05' Ditry Duramax]

I wouldnt worry about it. They would never put it in a denali. I mean come on you think 99% of the denali demographic or customer base would buy a 'yucky diesel'????

If it goes into ANY non-HD-pickup truck it would be the 2500 suburban, or the half ton pickup truck, thats it. I will eat my shorts if they put it into a half ton tahoe, escalade, or denali.

ben

I hear ya' but I was going to get a Tahoe if they would have made them. I bought the Denali cause that's what I liked when I was looking.

I don't think the upper scale vehicles would sell very well with 4.5. I'd like to have one though LOL.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

quite frankly I dont really think today's buyers really think about resale when they buy a vehicle. I KNOW it sounds stupid and un-beleiveable...and you guys think im crazy for saying that.

but think about it. Do you think Jenny Soccermom and Bill Contractor give a shit how much he/shes gonna get for her new suburban/half ton silverado that he/she just bought when he/she trades it in in 5 years? Or in the contractors case hes probably just gonna run it into the ground...so it REALLY doesnt matter to him. And dont bother with the argument "WELL a diesel engine is gonna last longer, you forgot about that ben!!!", because that doesnt mean anything today with the current GM Gen III/IV small block V8's. They will go just as long as a duramax.

ben

When I was in sales a few years back, I found that the average buyer would always get a 6 year loan even though they knew for 100% certainty that they would be trading it in in 3 years when the warranty ran out. I remember taking in trades simply because they needed tires and they said it was cheaper for them to make the car payment every month than it was to buy a set of tires and keep the vehicle that was almost paid off. This was back in 06, so when things turned REALLY south right afterwards I wasn't shocked in the slightest. It's a shame, but most buyers out there shouldn't be allowed to drive. Let alone breed and vote.

 

[LBZ]

With the ever increasinly tough to meet diesel emissons, they apparently do not see it as a finacially viable option to sell diesel's here, most people will not pay an extra $7- 9k for a diesel in there half-ton or SUV regardless of the mileage it may get, how many miles do you think you'd have to drive to justify the extra change to check off that diesel option? There isn't anything a 4.5 can really do that the current 6.0 gas cant do, except get better mileage. You want more diesel options talk to your congressman and senators pushing these "green" standards.

If you think that the current US emissions are tough to meet, take a look at europe's emissions standards. They are at euro 5 now and my company can't even import anything diesel made in North America into most anywhere in Europe now because they don't meet the standards. This open's the door for the Euro market in North America to get higher sales because they do meet/exceed the current US standards.

Where the diesel market will fluorish is likely not in half ton trucks, but in the mid/full size sedans and small economy commuter vehicles. Taxi's and delivery vehicles almost everywhere in Europe are diesel-because diesel fuel is cheaper and emissions are less so the governments give incentives to people to buy them with cheaper insurance and rebates!! Not because of resale or the fact they may last longer.

 

[WolfLMM]

No 300hp engine is going to get 30 mpg. You want 30 mpg, put a 157 hp isuzu I 6 in your truck. You might come close.

 

[Poltergeist]

No 300hp engine is going to get 30 mpg. You want 30 mpg, put a 157 hp isuzu I 6 in your truck. You might come close.

The 2011 Mustang is a 305hp V6 that gets 31mpg. Many of the current V8 LS motors from GM are getting VERY close to 30mpg. I figure give them a little bit more time and they'll have it. Diesels won't be that far behind if the 4.5 is not already there.

 

[TheBac]

If you think that the current US emissions are tough to meet, take a look at europe's emissions standards. They are at euro 5 now and my company can't even import anything diesel made in North America into most anywhere in Europe now because they don't meet the standards. This open's the door for the Euro market in North America to get higher sales because they do meet/exceed the current US standards.

Where the diesel market will fluorish is likely not in half ton trucks, but in the mid/full size sedans and small economy commuter vehicles. Taxi's and delivery vehicles almost everywhere in Europe are diesel-because diesel fuel is cheaper and emissions are less so the governments give incentives to people to buy them with cheaper insurance and rebates!! Not because of resale or the fact they may last longer.

If this is indeed fact, and Europe's standards are higher than the USA, then explain to me the constant excuse we get that the small diesels made by our domestic automakers and sold in Europe are not allowed to be sold here.

 

[duratothemax]

x2, I always thought it was europe that had less stringent emissions standards?

 

[LBZ]

I don't have an answer for you Tom. I don't know anything about the small engines but they likely fall under a different category from automotive/commercial transport vehicles anyhow. Likely a more political thing than anything else.

All I know is look at Euro 5 and compare it to the current US standards. When we asked Cummins, CAT and Detroit if their engines can be built to meet Euro 5 standards (their's currently only meet Euro 3) they said "what's Euro 5???" They didn't even know it existed.

 

[Diesel Pilot]

I always thought that Euro gas emissions were stricter but the diesel emission didn't even come close to what USA or more importantly California needed.

Isn't that why California just got the TDI jetta last year for the first time, and everything under the sun has a diesel motor in Europe. Maybe cars have a different set of standards from bigger trucks and equipment.

Personally, I don't think diesel will ever really be embraced here like it is in the rest of the world. You guys know that unless you are running on a big highway where there are trucks stops, finding a diesel station can sometimes be a pain. When I'm in a strange city with either the truck or the TDI, it's always a struggle to find a place to fill up. The city I live in only has 1 diesel pump out of 15 gas stations. I usually have to drive 10-15 miles from my house just to fill up and I don't live in the boonies.

Also, the one point about TDI's being very scarce is true, but 3 things made/make that car sell like hotcakes.

1. It was released during cash for clunkers. When I bought mine it was one of 4, on 3 VW lots in the whole city of Columbus. I did not do C4C, but the salesman said 80% of the sales were C4C sales. Local dealers were not marking the car up so buyers were coming from all over. Average time for the car to be on a lot was less than a week.

2. Look at it's competition. The Honda Insight and Toyota Prius. 2 cars that look exactly alike and suck. I drove an Insight and I've been in golf carts with more power. For people that don't want to look like tree huggers, but still want a really efficient car, the TDI was really the only choice.

3. Tax credit, all the other hybrid's and very efficient cars had used up there .gov tax credit and the TDI was the only choice. Except for hybid escalades and stuff like that.

I want diesel just as much as you guys but it's already in the past. There might be a few makers that bring out a few vehicles like VW, BMW, maybe a Japanese unit, but most car makers are focusing on non-oil based fuels.

 

[bigbaddiesel]

There is alot of cars in Europe that have diesel, (like diesel honda civics, subarus, jags, ect.) everything is available in diesel over there but they arnt available in N. america, because of different emiisons reasons.. You can buy cars in the UK that get over 70mpg on a diesel, and they arnt aloud over here.. i dont see how that makes any sense, if we are trying to go green, why they arnt sold here

 

[WolfLMM]

The 2011 Mustang is a 305hp V6 that gets 31mpg. Many of the current V8 LS motors from GM are getting VERY close to 30mpg. I figure give them a little bit more time and they'll have it. Diesels won't be that far behind if the 4.5 is not already there.

In our trucks.... I thought everybody would know that is what I meant LOL.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[WolfLMM]

Its all about money.... follow the money.

Euro's emission standards are lower than ours, but their fuel is taxed heavily. #2 is at least twice as expensive as it it here.

 

[Poltergeist]

In our trucks.... I thought everybody would know that is what I meant LOL.

Sorry for the confusion.

I'm aware of what you meant. I stated that gassers are doing it now and I don't think diesels will be that far behind.