Hey guys, looking at a new LML... might wait 'til 2012 but looking. Just wondering about the DEF. Couple questions, can you fool it with different fluid or remove the nox sensor and hang it outside the pipe? Also is there a soot filter that will clog if you don't use the right fluid. I work up north, not always a service center near by, more likely a tank or slip tank. Also I know that stuff freezes and it is a common occurance to see well below the freezing temps up here. (-58F) So I'd like to know ahead of time that I can get rid of that BS fairly easily, also that tank is in a very inconvienient position for the terrain up here considering we actually use our skid plates. Any info on this would be appreciated. Thanks.
LML Fooling Urea
- Thread starter 8lug
- Start date
The tank has a heater. It will sense the temp and allow you to drive it if the fluid is frozen, simply due to the fact that you cant help it. IIRC
no, you arent gonna be able to fool it. This is the year 2010 and ECM's and vehicles are smarter than ever. Do you really think it would be as simple as "just hang the nox sensor out there" and everything will be all hunky dory? 
yes, it will know if you dont put the right fluid in it. The RIGHT fluid is like $2.50/gallon and you need to put 5 gallons in every oil change....which I dont think is too much to ask?
Yes, it will be fine in the very cold weather.
yes, the tank is well protected. I know it doesnt "look" like it is, but it is. Read diesel place. Plenty of guys in oil fields have been beating the crap out of their 2011's off road and in the woods and much to their surprise, have yet to even put a scratch on the tanks.
People need to just give the darn thing a chance. Leave it alone. There have been *zero* reports of people having ANY problems with it, its been working great, the trucks have awesome fuel economy, huge power, and run smoother than ever. Why people are already scheming of getting rid of it and dumping their warranty is totally beyond me. There is no reason to get rid of it...
If the urea/emissions setup is the ONLY thing holding you back from buying a 2011, thats flat out silly. They are AWESOME trucks.
JMO
Ben
yes, it will know if you dont put the right fluid in it. The RIGHT fluid is like $2.50/gallon and you need to put 5 gallons in every oil change....which I dont think is too much to ask?
Yes, it will be fine in the very cold weather.
yes, the tank is well protected. I know it doesnt "look" like it is, but it is. Read diesel place. Plenty of guys in oil fields have been beating the crap out of their 2011's off road and in the woods and much to their surprise, have yet to even put a scratch on the tanks.
People need to just give the darn thing a chance. Leave it alone. There have been *zero* reports of people having ANY problems with it, its been working great, the trucks have awesome fuel economy, huge power, and run smoother than ever. Why people are already scheming of getting rid of it and dumping their warranty is totally beyond me. There is no reason to get rid of it...
If the urea/emissions setup is the ONLY thing holding you back from buying a 2011, thats flat out silly. They are AWESOME trucks.
JMO
Ben
I read a article in a trucking mag. about using water instead of the exhaust fluid. They did a test with cummuns and detroit diesel motors and they all ran fine with no problems just using water. I also saw the same test on youtube
K fine well try it on a duramax, see how well that works for you.
(im warning you right now it wont; the EPA emissions controls/regs are a joke compared to 'light duty' trucks like ours; they/class-8 trucks arent required to monitor DEF fluid quality very accurately and the allowable NOx parameters are way lenient)
Last edited:
no, you arent gonna be able to fool it. This is the year 2010 and ECM's and vehicles are smarter than ever. Do you really think it would be as simple as "just hang the nox sensor out there" and everything will be all hunky dory?
yes, it will know if you dont put the right fluid in it. The RIGHT fluid is like $2.50/gallon and you need to put 5 gallons in every oil change....which I dont think is too much to ask?
Yes, it will be fine in the very cold weather.
yes, the tank is well protected. I know it doesnt "look" like it is, but it is. Read diesel place. Plenty of guys in oil fields have been beating the crap out of their 2011's off road and in the woods and much to their surprise, have yet to even put a scratch on the tanks.
People need to just give the darn thing a chance. Leave it alone. There have been *zero* reports of people having ANY problems with it, its been working great, the trucks have awesome fuel economy, huge power, and run smoother than ever. Why people are already scheming of getting rid of it and dumping their warranty is totally beyond me. There is no reason to get rid of it...
If the urea/emissions setup is the ONLY thing holding you back from buying a 2011, thats flat out silly. They are AWESOME trucks.
JMO
Ben
Delete kits WILL come for the Urea injection systems. Spartan has already figured it out on the Fords. It won't be as simple as just hanging the NOx sensor out of the pipe or running different fluid though lol. Likely it will not be any different then the current options out on the market like programming to delete egr's, boost foolers, DPF delete kits, and programming options by the way of PPE, EFI Live, SCT, Bully Dog, etc.
It's gonna happen Ben-don't kid yourself!!
And I guarantee you, when people start hot rodding LML's, or in 5 years or less when these things start fouling up in trucks off warranty and people have to start paying big bucks to get them fixed, there will be a flooding of the market of options to delete them. They will go the way of the cat's and dpf's - GONE!!!!!
I'm sure someone will come out with a delete kit for it, I'm with Ben on this one , just give these things time
Very true Josh. But if history repeats itself, a handful of other outfit's will have something out long before EFI does.
Doesn't mean they will be as good though.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these are a bad thing, just that some people are not going to want it for one reason or another therefore, supply and demand, someone will make a system to delete it.
Doesn't mean they will be as good though.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these are a bad thing, just that some people are not going to want it for one reason or another therefore, supply and demand, someone will make a system to delete it.
No no I know that.
And im not saying "I dont want delete kits to come out". When the kits do come out I will have no problem if someone wants to take it off his/her truck.
All im saying is everyone needs to just chill out and stop chomping at the bit for these kits. The trucks run JUST FINE as-is. Its not like the LMM's where they got horrible fuel economy until the DPF was removed, so theres no excuse to keep whining about the LML emissions system. (or using it as a reason to hold off on buying a 2011...if I had the money I would have bought one yesterday)
"It will be out when its out". Until then, just relax, stop thinking about it, and enjoy your new 400hp fully-warrantied big-braked awesome towing machine.
Ben, do you have an LML? Does the tank not hang below the frame rail? I am not worried about the $12.50 or the 15 seconds it takes to fill, I am worried about getting a hole in the tank, running out and not being within 500 miles of somewhere to get some. One could argue "well you could knock a hole in you oil pan then you're screwed" true but I have a skid plate for that and it's above the frame rail. One more thing to go wrong for no reason is one more thing to delete for me. One could build a skid plate for it I guess. But, if that is true about the temperature, I guess 8 months of problems will be solved by unhooking the heater and putting a resistor in its place... might be able to simulate all the senor outs like that if they are analog. Some of you guys are saying why? I am saying why not? :dontknow: I will definately not, not buy one based on that, I am looking forward to being a proud owner of a new jacked up denali :mike: I am just planning for the future.
From what I've been told, Bullydog has already cracked the LML ECM and made power with it.
Haha, leave it to bullydog to crack it first. If that is in fact true. Somehow, someway they seem to get the job done fast.
Personally, I don't have a huge issue with the Urea, other than the way GM has the truck go into super limp mode when you run out... Granted, you should not let it run out and you get warning, BUT what happens if the sensor dies and thinks it's empty, or the tank ruptures while off-roading (highly unlikely, I'd imagine), or any other thing you can think of that would piss the ECM off and cause it to go into limp mode? I have a huge problem with the POS DPF. If the Duramax DPF's are anything like the one on my wife's jetta, they will eventually fill up and have to be replaced. The Jetta DPFs regen, which reduces the soot to finer ash, but it never leaves the DPF. On the Jettas, you're supposed to start checking ash loading every 5k over 120k and replace it when it reads full (I forget how many grams of ash is considered full) to the tune of $3400! Screw that BS. I've already told her if we can't delete the POS once the warranty is up, we're trading it off at 100k.
VW's approach is a lot different... and yes the DPF's do suck... the Urea should clean up all those DPF's wayy more efficiently. You are usuing a "clean" material vs using fuel to heat up the cats/dpf like the old VW's did... trust me I feel your pain with the VW's we own probably 8 tdi's, two of which are the Touareg V10's.... and they suck.
Highly doubt it since the DPF is for particulate matter, Urea is for NOx. One really no bearing on the other...
Sorry, no, it doesn't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlueTec
Urea is used to reduce the NOx, the DPF is to trap the particulate.
The Urea is injected into the exahust, particulate matter is generated in the combustion chanber. Injecting Urea into the exahust is not going to magicly make soot dissapear.
oke: