First aluminum duramax rod!!

[Diesel power]

I made a typo, with the rods i lost 300 grams each (one pound = 453.59237 grams) so total rod wieght loss would be 2400...= 5.30 lbs :hello:

 

[Redbone]

15lbs cames from, rods, wrist pin, pistons, ring package and the crank bob weight's, there is so much involved but i really dont want to get into great detail. There's a lot of weight in the stock set up, which meant a lot of room for improvement in my mind.

Do you run a engine with out a ballencer? probably not. mainly beacuse it wouldent run to well or for too long right? because harmonics would ruin your engine and it would make less HP in the process.......Same applies here.
All of our alcohol engines run without balancers in our sprint cars and midgets. That includes 840+HP 410 SBC's and 360HP inline 4's. No competitors run balancers. Played with them on the dyno and the track and found no advantage, just longer to wind up. FWIW, we run either Ti or steel rods in everything.

Aluminum takes or absorbes impact that steel cant resulting in less stress or strain delivered to the crank and piston, valve train.....ECT resulting in less harmonic and mechanicle distortion. you get my point now?
Help me understand this. Mechanical vibration, sound waves for example, travel faster in aluminum than steel. What is it with the aluminum that provides dampening? Is it the distortion of the Al rod itself that dampens the vibration?

How does a light rod make more HP, well you answered you own question in your post above......TQ X RPM +HP....need i say more.!
You missed my point, let me restate it. Let's assume a given steel rod motor combination making peak power at 4000 RPM. Now let's replace the rods with Al rods that will let it rev to 5000 RPM. It will not produce any more power at 4000 RPM than the steel rod motor. It MIGHT, however, produce more power beyond 4000 RPM providing it continues to produce torque at these higher RPM values.

The rods allowed us to Rev gain ALOT faster and allowed us to make other various engine components much better, which resulted in more probable HP.

So since i built the engine around the RODS , yes the rods are going to be the reason or shall i say main contributing factor as to why i make more HP.
Would it be more accurate to say that higher RPM will allow for more HP? The rods don't have anything to do with making torque at a given RPM.

If that aint enought explaination, then ask yourself this: why does every top fuel, funny car, and pro mod drag racer use aluminum rods instead of steel?
As you called it, rev gain. They get through the gears quicker to the engines sweet spot. I still say the rods will not produce any more power unless the engine manages to make torque in the additional RPM. The engine must be tuned to take advantage of the additional RPM. The rods themselves do not make more power. Agreed?

Response in Blue

 

[Stingpuller]

Yep!!!

Redbone, You can't win. He is smarter,faster and already done it ALL. We have a guy like him here local. I got him a hat on time at a race that I may have to see if I can find another for Wade. It went like this! Picture a hat with a BIG clock on the front. It said "to save time lets just assume I know everything":rofl: I thought that was the greatest. Jeff

 

[Diesel power]

Response in Blue

I agree with you in most of your statments, i just think it's hard for me to accuratly express what im trying to say over the keyboard. i dont want to get in a pissing match because of a missunderstanding between one another's view's.:hug:

 

[Redbone]

No pissin' match intended. It's all good. Just reasonable technical debate.:hello:

 

[Fingers]

Lighter rods reduce you reciprocating mass and do almost nothing for you rotating mass. Unlike a lighter crank which goes entirely to reducing rotational mass. Less rotational mass is what lets you spin up faster. (RPM gain)

However, if you want to spin real fast, everything you can save on the reciprocating part of the motor will go a long way to keeping it together.

But what do I know...

 

[Turbo Buick 6]

Lighter rods reduce you reciprocating mass and do almost nothing for you rotating mass. Unlike a lighter crank which goes entirely to reducing rotational mass. Less rotational mass is what lets you spin up faster. (RPM gain)

However, if you want to spin real fast, everything you can save on the reciprocating part of the motor will go a long way to keeping it together.

But what do I know...

But lighter rods require you to remove weight from the counter weights which removes rotating mass.

 

[Mike L.]

Pictures of a stock rod for those wondering about offset. the centerline of the rod itself is not offset (Pin to big end), There is a difference on one side of the rod (Crank side). The rod has a chamfer/fillet, and that is the side that is closest to the crank. It is extended out further then the other side, but not making the rod itself offset. The rod bearing still sit's centerline with the pin end.

I saw that rod on discovery channel. It was part of the Ttanic's engine.
Where did you find that ps Russ? The cap does not match the rod.

 

[LBZrcks]

I saw that rod on discovery channel. It was part of the Titanic's engine.
Where did you find that pos Russ? The cap does not match the rod.

X2 Russ that thing is nasty! :barf:

 

[RPM Motorsports]

Uhhh, Thats actually what Wade sent me the second time around, after the motor I bought from him showed up without rod and main caps. Yes, one of the rods had a mis matched cap, and was replaced on the third try.

 

[Fingers]

But lighter rods require you to remove weight from the counter weights which removes rotating mass.

Point, Just don't think it is good bang for the buck.

 

[Turbo Buick 6]

Point, Just don't think it is good bang for the buck.

Oh I agree. It's not for most. But there becomes a point when there is little you can do other than start going after those few exrta hp.

 

[Diesel power]

Lighter rods reduce you reciprocating mass and do almost nothing for you rotating mass. Unlike a lighter crank which goes entirely to reducing rotational mass. Less rotational mass is what lets you spin up faster. (RPM gain)

However, if you want to spin real fast, everything you can save on the reciprocating part of the motor will go a long way to keeping it together.

But what do I know...

Accually recipricating Weight accounts for a lot of power loss...

the big end of the rod is the heavyest part and thus is where much improvemnet can be made to the loss of rotational weight.

Ask any engine builder out there whats more important recipricating or rotating? #1 is recipricating! 5lbs up there is worth like 20lbs in the rotating dept! But, hey im a bettycrocker subscriber......whats a engine.

 

[Trippin]

Lighter rods reduce you reciprocating mass and do almost nothing for you rotating mass. Unlike a lighter crank which goes entirely to reducing rotational mass. Less rotational mass is what lets you spin up faster. (RPM gain)

However, if you want to spin real fast, everything you can save on the reciprocating part of the motor will go a long way to keeping it together.

But what do I know...

:exactly:I agree with the above.

Accually recipricating Weight accounts for a lot of power loss...

the big end of the rod is the heavyest part and thus is where much improvemnet can be made to the loss of rotational weight.

Ask any engine builder out there whats more important recipricating or rotating? #1 is recipricating! 5lbs up there is worth like 20lbs in the rotating dept! But, hey im a bettycrocker subscriber......whats a engine.

I disagree with the above in red.

You better go make some more phone calls...................

 

[Diesel power]

:exactly:I agree with the above.



I disagree with the above in red.

You better go make some more phone calls...................

It's been proven over and over Guy....

Example, add 10 lbs to the recipricating assy and dyno, then go back to normal recipricating assy and add 10lbs to the rotating assy and dyno, i bet you $1000 you lose more HP in the recip assy than the rotation assy!

Especially Big HP engines and High RPM engines, but then again how many diesel engines do you have turning over 5k AND making big HP ?

Sonny lenard, David reher, Mike shelton, TRE Owner, Taylor Lastor and Steve Schmidt All said the same thing when i have talked with them in the past, so maybe it's not us that needs to make a few more phone calls!

 

[Trippin]

It's been proven over and over Guy....

Example, add 10 lbs to the recipricating assy and dyno, then go back to normal recipricating assy and add 10lbs to the rotating assy and dyno, i bet you $1000 you lose more HP in the recip assy than the rotation assy!

Especially Big HP engines and High RPM engines, but then again how many diesel engines do you have turning over 5k AND making big HP ?

Sonny lenard, David reher, Mike shelton, TRE Owner, Taylor Lastor and Steve Schmidt All said the same thing when i have talked with them in the past, so maybe it's not us that needs to make a few more phone calls!

No need for me to make any phone calls, I was building Titanium rodded engines in early 1990 and running them back to back with steel rods on my own Superflow engine dyno. I did a complete study on bobweights at that time as well as rod lengths. Feel free to refer to Circle Track Magazine
March 1990 issue for the facts.

And you?

I'll again state the obvious, you have no personal experience with the above statments, you can (mis)quote people all you want, but until you have actually built some engines and done the testing, (as I have) your just another keyboard jocky who wants to be famous by posting photos and presenting other peoples ideas as your own on an internet message forum.

And just so we are real clear on this point Wade, the motor doesn't know it's a diesel, if you ask it, it won't answer.

All engines are subject to the same laws of physics. It all comes down to the basic parameters, bore, stroke, rod length, cylinder head flow, cylinder pressure etc. etc.

Spread your bullshit somewhere else..............:getout:

 

[Diesel power]

I cant belive you build high performance diesel engines and yet dont understand how things work....

Here maybe this will help you.

Rotating weight needs to over come inertia only

Recipricating weight reguardless of what the weight is WILL MULTIPLY With every increase in RPM, there is no way around it!

so extra weight in the recipricating areas will have a more negitive effect than weight in the rotation area's....

not to say that weight is not important in the rotation areas but it is a known FACT that recipricating weight is important OVER rotation weight, any day of the week!

Maybe you WOULD have a good idea if you were not stuck in a " if it ant broke why fix it better" mentality( thats what lost me as a customer among other things), sometimes stepping outside the box is when you can really begine to innovate!

Now that your on here publically acting an ASS, ( for no reason other than we have different views) it's evident why i wont be calling you again!


There is much to be said but i have nothing nice to say so, unless futher provoked i will not say anything else to you!

 

[03demax]

I have not posted for a while, but why is it when Diesel Power starts to post he turns into an A$$ and likes to stir up trouble. I don't mind you being controversial. When you try to make out that everybody else is stupid that is the limit. I don't even know you and now I would have a hard time being friends. Your attitude needs some work!!! Are you bitter about life in general??

 

[Diesel power]

I have not posted for a while, but why is it when Diesel Power starts to post he turns into an A$$ and likes to stir up trouble. I don't mind you being controversial. When you try to make out that everybody else is stupid that is the limit. I don't even know you and now I would have a hard time being friends. Your attitude needs some work!!! Are you bitter about life in general??

Dude! did you miss what was said to me? on my part it was all retaliation, from being intentionally provoked

 

[JoshH]

I cant belive you build high performance diesel engines and yet dont understand how things work....

Here maybe this will help you.

Rotating weight needs to over come inertia only then it will rev out freely.

Recipricating weight reguardless of what the weight is WILL MULTIPLY With every increase in RPM, there is no way around it!

so extra weight in the recipricating areas will have a more negitive effect than weight in the rotation area's....

not to say that weight is not important in the rotation areas but it is a known FACT that recipricating weight is important OVER rotation weight, any day of the week!

Maybe you WOULD have a good idea if you were not stuck in a " if it ant broke why fix it" mentality, sometimes stepping outside the box is when you can really begine to innovate!


There is much to be said but i have nothing nice to say so, unless futher provoked i will not say anything else to you!

I knew it wouldn't be long before the douche-baggery bubbled to the surface.