Finger Vanes

[Killerbee]

It's good to see you still hammering away at this Jon.

Not trying to get too sideways...an article that is coming out in MaxxTorque magazine this month, lays the results of a test that changed only the compressor side plumbing, and for WOT boost, vane position went from 68% to 45% (time averaged), in a well controlled on-grade test. I did not participate in the test or the article, though I consulted.

Just thought it was worth mentioning.

 

[kodiak]

And I bet it helped the ECT too.

 

[Killerbee]

That was the intention. But the other incidental benefits were well quantified.

Jon and I stress opposite sides of the shaft. My position has been that compressor loads drive backpressure (moreso) than exhaust tract flaws, like vane design. But there are merits to both.

From looking at the variable concept, it seems to me that vane design is a compromise, and must be made to optimize a limited range of vane position for the intended air flow needs. A vane intended to be optimized at 30% (low boost) would be quite different than one optimized for 80% (high boost) position. Spoolup would be a big indicator of this reality.

OK, so another question: if you take both the oem vane and these new ones, if each is positioned, to say, 60%. What is the main difference aerodynamically? Is the chord line and angle of incidence the same?

 

[Fingers]

Vane design will always be a compromise. Nature of any system. In the case of the VVT, the goal is control of the flow velocity. However, with this design, manipulation of the flow velocity also changes the incident angle of the flow into the turbine. As the vanes open, they start to redirect the flow from tangential to the turbine to perpendicular.

So chord angle does not tell you much. You need to look at the incident flow angles into and out of the vane region.

 

[stacks04]

i have a turbo sitting right in front of me apart if you need a tester for the new vanes. the unison ring got a little rusted to the hub and was setting turbo under boost codes. warranty is a turbo r&r so i got the old one. nice easy install.

 

[Fingers]

I can do that. PM me.

 

[1slow01Z71]

So what kind of gains would you see with these added to a cheetah?

 

[dmaxfireman]

I'm considering getting a set of these. How much of a project is it to R+R the turbo? And are there any bugs that still have not been worked out with these that could damage anything?

-Kyle

 

[othrgrl]

Turbo R&R is probably an 8 hour job for a first timer.

I am very interested in seeing what Jon and Braden could do with a stock appearing turbo if they put their heads together.

 

[Big Angry]

I'm considering getting a set of these. How much of a project is it to R+R the turbo? And are there any bugs that still have not been worked out with these that could damage anything?

-Kyle

Between the up pipes, turbo, and downpipe, it was a complete PITA. We had way too much time invested in it this past weekend. Felt good when it was over, but my truck fought us every step of the way, and we broke 2 ratchets along the way.
Will finish up a few minor things this weekend and I hope it was all worth it!

 

[dmaxfireman]

Let us know how it turns our I'm interested in the gains these may have. Maybe shoot a video and get some sounds for us to hear. IIRC fingers said that they sounds pretty mean.

-Kyle

 

[Big Angry]

When I get her dialed in, I'll report my findings. Don't have a video, but maybe I can borrow my buddy's and shoot one with his.

 

[LBZrcks]

Let us know how it turns our I'm interested in the gains these may have. Maybe shoot a video and get some sounds for us to hear. IIRC fingers said that they sounds pretty mean.

-Kyle

X2, I'd like to see the gains also especially if you change the tunning a little.

 

[LBZrcks]

When I get her dialed in, I'll report my findings. Don't have a video, but maybe I can borrow my buddy's and shoot one with his.

You planning on going to a dyno?

 

[Big Angry]

Eventually.
However, keep in mind, I am changing a lot, so pinpointing one specific item for gains will be impossible. Went from Predator to EFI Live, upgraded turbo, vanes, up pipes, downpipes. And I'm not going for "kill" on the tuning. I am looking for maximum power without EGT concerns. I don't want an xxxhp truck, that I can only run for about 3 seconds without the pyro maxing out. So, I am willing to leave some power (aka dyno #'s) on the table and try to tune for what I've been referring to as "Maximum usable power". So, #'s might not be as great as some hoped, but I realize I'll never be a big dog in performance, unless my money tree suddenly bears fruit. And the last 3 months of basically being truckless (between the body shop and now this) has taken it's toll on me. I'm at a love/hate point, and I just want to drive it and stop F'ing with it for a while.

 

[WolfLMM]

Fingers, Dumb question maybe. Are these from new blanks? (I assume yes) What material are you using? 350 sounds like a good price to me.

 

[Fingers]

Though I have Inconel available, I have found good old stainless to hold up flawlessly so far and it keeps the material costs in check.

I am still not satisfied with the spool up character of these vanes, but I am making progress. Once the turbo is lit, they are very nice. JMO.

I too have too many mods to do a back to back for Dyno #s. I might be able to get one of the other installations to get back on the Dyno here in the next month. He has only modded his tranny and down pipe, so we "should" be able to do a comparison to pre vane conditions that mean something.

I've been trying to get Brayden to get me a turbo (for almost a year now) so I could fit and test the vanes to the Cheetah, but no Joy. Guess it is time to punt on that route. If someone wants to try them in a Cheetah, send me yours and I will fit them.

There is another set in a modified turbo that have not performed well. At least not IMO. It is not clear to me if it is tuning, vanes, or vanes in combination with the other mods, but I would not be surprised if that rev of the vanes is a bad match for the application.

 

[Fingers]

I'm considering getting a set of these. How much of a project is it to R+R the turbo? And are there any bugs that still have not been worked out with these that could damage anything?

-Kyle

Getting the turbo in and out is the PITA. The vane change is very easy.

Personally, I would change the up and down pipes at the same time. Just to make it worth while.

 

[WolfLMM]

Is the reverse side machined out? Or are they solid i.e. no pockets?

 

[othrgrl]

Any thoughts on trying to make some more like the ones Brayden posted pics of? Have you contacted Elite about fitting it to their upgraded VVT? Fleece is in the middle af moving shops right now, just got done with a magazine article install and photo shoot, and have been running a little behind due to those things. Just keep hounding them like I did.