Oh Ben, you know I would hate to loose my stabilitrak lol. You have made some pretty good points I hadn't thought about. That's why I asked the question.
Duraflite in an LMM?
- Thread starter Harbin_22
- Start date
Oh Ben, you know I would hate to loose my stabilitrak lol. You have made some pretty good points I hadn't thought about. That's why I asked the question.
haha yeah I knew that would turn you off to the swap! :rofl:
The trick thing to do probably would be to somehow mount an 01-05 5-speed NSBU (ie, an external one) onto the dodge trans. Then splice the 5-speed NSBU into the 6-speed TCM/wiring. Then your door locks would work, cluster would show proper PRND indication, and neutral-safety-starter-interlock would work like factory.
Then just cut the TCM MIL-request wire that goes from the TCM to the ECM, and then just set P0700 to not-report in the tune, like Kory said.
The more I think about it, the more Im leaning towards "keep the TCM in there and wired up" would be the preferred route, rather than cutting out everything allison-related.
EDIT: No discrete TCM MIL-request wire on LMM's, I was wrong about that...its done over GMLAN.
Ben
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not sure what you mean by rear speed Kory? Rear wheel speed? From EBCM over GMLAN? How would that work on the duallys though.. [non ESC, 3-channel ABS with no discrete rear wheel speed sensors]
Not sure on duallys, rear wheel speed.... LML do as well I believe. Have to look back at notes!
LML 2011-2014 dually's dont have ESC either though (so no discrete rear wheel speed sensors). 2015 was the first model year for ESC on duallys.
LML 2011-2014 dually's dont have ESC either though (so no discrete rear wheel speed sensors). 2015 was the first model year for ESC on duallys.
I could be wrong... But a while back on my truck too, i was towing back home and the truck went nuts.. Speedo went ballistic. Checked toss and was reading what speedo was, but rear speed sensor was dead on. Shortly after the truck quit acting stupid and then I looked and toss was still going nuts, but speedo was dead on to rear speed. Speedo actually went to stock calibration too. Wild eh?
hmmm
When you say "rear speed sensor", you mean when checking left-rear and right-rear wheel speed sensor readings as shown by tech 2 in ABS data?
I dont know about the new EBC460 abs hardware on the 2015+ trucks, but on the -445's used on the 2009-2014 SRW w/ESC, the ABS module (in addition to the 4 wheel speed sensors) has both a discrete INput (128k) from the ECM, and a discrete OUTput (4k)...the discrete output goes to the radio (I dont know why it needs this, low speed GMLAN is plenty fast enough for VSS info)....so maybe the radio's discrete VSS input provides a sanity-check with the instrument cluster's low speed GMLAN VSS input??? If TOSS from the TCM to the ECM (and therefore, to the ABS as well) was buggered up though, it should have set an ABS DTC as well. Very odd indeed.
Or, in your case, the ECM reverted to just using the vehicle speed info sent over GMLAN from the TCM to ECM.....and what I referred to above with the ABS module is totally irrelevant info that doesnt apply haha.
Either way, 2014 and older duallys with the 3-channel EBC345 hardware dont have rear wheel speed sensors to begin with, so the only way the ECM is going to get any sort of speed info is from the TCM over the dedicated TOSS signal wire (and from GMLAN as a backup)...it does compare the discrete TOSS signal wire with output speed as reported by GMLAN, and will set a code if theres a difference.
But thats kind of all irrelevant because what I was originally referring to, is if the TCM can be eliminated altogether on an LMM ECM calibration.
Will the LMM ECM calibration accept/read/understand the raw AC signal from a variable-reluctance speed sensor. Or will it only understand the DC 5-volt square-wave 128k ppm signal (as broadcast by the allison TCM).......that is the question???
Now guys this is the technical talk we need on all threads instead if pecker measurements. Thanks for some insight into the workings if the system.
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No kidding. Amazing how smart some of these guys are.
hmmm
When you say "rear speed sensor", you mean when checking left-rear and right-rear wheel speed sensor readings as shown by tech 2 in ABS data?
I dont know about the new EBC460 abs hardware on the 2015+ trucks, but on the -445's used on the 2009-2014 SRW w/ESC, the ABS module (in addition to the 4 wheel speed sensors) has both a discrete INput (128k) from the ECM, and a discrete OUTput (4k)...the discrete output goes to the radio (I dont know why it needs this, low speed GMLAN is plenty fast enough for VSS info)....so maybe the radio's discrete VSS input provides a sanity-check with the instrument cluster's low speed GMLAN VSS input??? If TOSS from the TCM to the ECM (and therefore, to the ABS as well) was buggered up though, it should have set an ABS DTC as well. Very odd indeed.
Or, in your case, the ECM reverted to just using the vehicle speed info sent over GMLAN from the TCM to ECM.....and what I referred to above with the ABS module is totally irrelevant info that doesnt apply haha.
Either way, 2014 and older duallys with the 3-channel EBC345 hardware dont have rear wheel speed sensors to begin with, so the only way the ECM is going to get any sort of speed info is from the TCM over the dedicated TOSS signal wire (and from GMLAN as a backup)...it does compare the discrete TOSS signal wire with output speed as reported by GMLAN, and will set a code if theres a difference.
But thats kind of all irrelevant because what I was originally referring to, is if the TCM can be eliminated altogether on an LMM ECM calibration.
Will the LMM ECM calibration accept/read/understand the raw AC signal from a variable-reluctance speed sensor. Or will it only understand the DC 5-volt square-wave 128k ppm signal (as broadcast by the allison TCM).......that is the question???
Goooood question... If you want to do some testing "behind the scenes" of it all I'm more than willing to send you whatever you want to try!
Ben is a smart cookie for sure, I get lost in his department.... Put me back in my little code world! Haha
meh I just memorize service manual stuff easily, thats about it...Id trade all that crap for even half the insane stuff you know about ECM's in a second though :hug: :book:
Kory do you know if killing P0700 in the ECM will actually stop the TCM from doing a MIL request? Or can the TCM also directly request the instrument cluster for MIL illumination??
Im really thinking leave the TCM in there is the way to go for Duraflite swap. That way you get gear status and all that other crap still functioning/being broadcast on GMLAN.
So basically you'll just be feeding the TCM NSBU inputs (from a 5-speed NSBU mounted on the side of the Duraflite), an output speed sensor signal, and thats about it. So the TCM will be throwing a million codes, but if setting P0700 to not report in the ECM actually does stop the MIL on the instrument cluster, then that would be ideal....in order to keep cruise control and all the other stuff functional
Im really thinking leave the TCM in there is the way to go for Duraflite swap. That way you get gear status and all that other crap still functioning/being broadcast on GMLAN.
So basically you'll just be feeding the TCM NSBU inputs (from a 5-speed NSBU mounted on the side of the Duraflite), an output speed sensor signal, and thats about it. So the TCM will be throwing a million codes, but if setting P0700 to not report in the ECM actually does stop the MIL on the instrument cluster, then that would be ideal....in order to keep cruise control and all the other stuff functional
My only concern (and this is what I ran into on LML cruise loss and speedo back in the gap) was the actual functionality of cruise control from going "out of bounds" on the logic to keep it happy. In another sense, "loosening" it's thresholds so it doesn't kick off as easy. There are tonnnnssss of switches and "kill" tables for cruise in correlation to speed, calc gforce, wheel slip, abs, etc (in which you know all this!) that keep me concerned on the PROPER functionality of cruise/stabilitrac "making it work"..... I honestly have not tried, but I would sure love to. Most stuff from LBZ translates to LMM code wise, so when my 48 goes in my truck I will be able to test all the functionality aspects. I basically "flipped the switcha" and set all the logic out of range so it didn't get pissed. 0700 was killed, but could actually be left on and didn't even care because it never tried to run the test in the first place. From my experience, I do not recall the ECM caring about the cluster.
Wish I had more info, but once I have one in my truck I can entertain all the functionality aspects.
andddd someone just ordered a LML tune because they are putting a LML in a Hovercraft.... this should be educational!!! hahaha :woott::rofl:
Well... After some wildcat research I learned this computer was used in quite a few different setups. This ecu is capable of running a CVT trans, standard trans, auto (I think 4l65? Auto alli, and then manual gearbox.... It appeared to be nearly all functional with flip of a button, but never certain until tested! I had a lot of fun learning more today.... This ECM never ceases to leave me mind boggled!
Still didn't quite figure out how to kill all functionalities to other modules, but I do know you can put this engine in whatever you want now and it will start and fuel!