December '23 Chat --- It's Christmastime!

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2004LB7

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How TF did you get it up there?

He is a Spider Monkey....

He bribed a kid in the neighborhood to climb that tree.

Some say we are descendants of tree monkeys.... 😁

I actually climbed the tree myself free hand. With tools and such stuffed in my pockets. A drill and screws, etc so I could attach it. I brought a rope up with me and tossed down one end to my brother who tied it to the star. He held the leader to keep it from the tree and I pulled it up. It's on a 10' poll so I only needed to climb to within 10' of the top. The "trunk" at that point is only about 2" to 2-1/2" in diameter.
 

N2BRK

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@TheBac I was going to PM you to keep from steering this thread back to matters of tax, but this is something important enough to warn people about that it bears putting in public. When you hire a home health aide company to supply a their employee to do what you are saying, you are in the clear. When you hire a person, or let’s say the service tells you after a while to just pay that person directly, then you become a Household Employer. Like any other employer, you are required to insure them for workers comp, you need to withhold taxes from their pay, you need to file employer forms and pay tax, and you provide them with a W2. You never want to fall into that mess. Most people have no idea they are employers in these situations, until something happens where the aide goes to the dept of labor for something like a job related injury, family leave for pregnancy, unemployment benefits… and then they proudly state that you were their employer!

As for the $15k, which is now $17k and soon to be $18k - that’s the limit and then you file the return but no tax (unless you exceed as I mentioned earlier). With gift splitting you and your wife can give someone $34k instead of $17k before having to file a gift tax return.

Last thing - review the Activities of Daily Living with his doctor. He may be able to claim a medical deduction for his care expenses - See IRS Pub 502.
 
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2004LB7

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@TheBac I was going to PM you to keep from steering this thread back to matters of tax, but this is something important enough to warn people about that it bears putting in public. When you hire a home health aide company to supply a their employee to do what you are saying, you are in the clear. When you hire a person, or let’s say the service tells you after a while to just pay that person directly, then you become a Household Employer. Like any other employer, you are required to insure them for workers comp, you need to withhold taxes from their pay, you need to file employer forms and pay tax, and you provide them with a W2. You never want to fall into that mess. Most people have no idea they are employers in these situations, until something happens where the aide goes to the dept of labor for something like a job related injury, family leave for pregnancy, unemployment benefits… and then they proudly state that you were their employer!

As for the $15k, which is now $17k and soon to be $18k - that’s the limit and then you file the return but no tax (unless you exceed as I mentioned earlier). With gift splitting you and your wife can give someone $34k instead of $17k before having to file a gift tax return.

Last thing - review the Activities of Daily Living with his doctor. He may be able to claim a medical deduction for his care expenses - See IRS Pub 502.
Is this a federal level thing or state specific? Like in California with their ongoing litigation to determine the legality of prop 22 that reclassified "gig" workers from independent contractors to employees. Example: Uber drivers would now be employees. But there is still handyman but they have limitations on how much they can make. So is it because a care taker ends up exceeding some dollar value? Or another metric?
 

N2BRK

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Is this a federal level thing or state specific? Like in California with their ongoing litigation to determine the legality of prop 22 that reclassified "gig" workers from independent contractors to employees. Example: Uber drivers would now be employees. But there is still handyman but they have limitations on how much they can make. So is it because a care taker ends up exceeding some dollar value? Or another metric?
It’s Fed and State. Level of income and/or time spent don’t enter into the equation. Some states have a hard-on for this and some don’t…yet. It’s a hot topic in regards to the difference between an employee and a subcontractor. The condensed version is that you look at behavior, finance, and relationship to determine employee vs contractor.

As short as I can:

Behavior - are you instructing the person on what to do, when to show up, control how the job is done, train the worker… Employee! If you don’t do any of this then check box for Contractor if they are working autonomously toward the contracted product or goal.

Finances - do they have a risk of losing money based on their contracted fee? Contractor. Are they being paid hourly? Employee. Are you suppling them with materials, tools, supplies, etc - employee.

Relationship - do you have a contract? Is there a time frame with an end date? Contractor. If not - employee. Are they doing contract work for others or are your their only source of income?

This is a super basic hierarchy of how the IRS/States look at the topic. It gets more complicated, and the Govt is already leaning toward employee when there’s an argument to be made.

NJ has also been looking at Uber and the like. They sent one of my clients an employee audit when he had 1099 income from Doordash. Tons of questions that all fell under the headings above. They weren’t looking to bother him, instead they were looking for evidence to reclassify doordash contractors as employees.
 

TheBac

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...and to think, I was really good at accounting in HS and thought about that as a career, well...until UPS happened. Thanks for that, Wally. Good to know that for when I have to start disbursing assets, but Ill also be working with Dad's attorney when that time comes, too.

The place Dad lives has 4 levels of care. Currently, he's at level 1, but he needs level 2 (or more appropriately level 3). Level 4 would be fulltime nurse. If it came to that, he'll be in hospice, which will be a different facility anyway. The head nurse has to do a new assessment of Dad today, and have some paperwork signed, then we go from there. He's been fighting me on this, but I finally put my foot down and told him none of us kids can care for him, and neither can his 86 y/o wife! We arent qualified, nor do any of us have the time (nobody is retired). You know that whole saying about "there comes a time when you become the parent to your parents"? Yup, thats where we're at. Ive been chasing his health for the past month. Now I feel as if Im getting ahead of it.


Lastly, stuff like this is what the chat threads are all about. Oh well, gotta go. This elf has to go back to work delivering presents....
 
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N2BRK

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If they are already to the point of being in a facility, then def review the activities of daily living. They likely have a huge medical deduction for the care facility charges.

I just explained that to someone that called me for advice about their mother in law. They self-prepared and never took a med deduction for Mom’s facility costs. She is fully disabled and living in a care facility. Mom has been taking distributions from her IRA and using her pension and SS to pay for the facility, so her income was pretty high. When I amended 3 years to add the $7000/mo in care facility fees to her Medical, it came out to $63k in additional refunds.

If they get to where the “kids” have to pay to support them, then there’s the likelihood that with a Multiple Support Agreement one of you can claim them as dependents.

HS doesn’t prepare you for shit when it comes to taxes. It is a shame. Another “school” that doesn’t prepare graduates is Seminary! The IRS has special rules for clergy members and it’s a more than a little confusing. Usually I get a new client after their first year making income in a church and they are upside down and owe a ton of tax :(

Another thing to consider in regard to gifts is that if Medicaid gets involved there’s a 5 year look back on gifts.

If you don’t have someone already, look for a practitioner that is a CPA or an Enrolled Agent. Either should be competent to steer your through the process. Some are also CSA - Certified Senior Advisors and have extra experience in this area.
 

malibu795

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For the last few years my street has been putting up arches, I decided to partake this year. Had to get a few more strands to fill it out. But not bad for a first time.
I'm just glad I'm far enough in the country I'm not subjected to this type of neighborhood peer pressure

Looks good though did you play Maria Carrey at the same time😂
 

malibu795

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in the buckeye state
At a local customer's place 12" flue and 4' wide 3' deep 60" tall.. has a 12*14" squirrel cage on it...
Definitely could use better ducting and some heat sinks
 

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TheBac

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Wally, thank u very much for the advice. I will definitely check into all that.

As to accounting, I love numbers. Being a CPA would've been a route i'd have seen myself taking....

I'll have to take pics of our yearly Christmas display tonight.
 
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Dm23

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I'm just glad I'm far enough in the country I'm not subjected to this type of neighborhood peer pressure

Looks good though did you play Maria Carrey at the same time😂
I got suckered into it, by the fiance, and the neighbors. lol Not much I could do. And no, no music lol. There is a another neighborhood in my city that does it BIG. Police come in just to make sure everything is alright. But it is really nice.
 
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NC-smokinlmm

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...and to think, I was really good at accounting in HS and thought about that as a career, well...until UPS happened. Thanks for that, Wally. Good to know that for when I have to start disbursing assets, but Ill also be working with Dad's attorney when that time comes, too.

The place Dad lives has 4 levels of care. Currently, he's at level 1, but he needs level 2 (or more appropriately level 3). Level 4 would be fulltime nurse. If it came to that, he'll be in hospice, which will be a different facility anyway. The head nurse has to do a new assessment of Dad today, and have some paperwork signed, then we go from there. He's been fighting me on this, but I finally put my foot down and told him none of us kids can care for him, and neither can his 86 y/o wife! We arent qualified, nor do any of us have the time (nobody is retired). You know that whole saying about "there comes a time when you become the parent to your parents"? Yup, thats where we're at. Ive been chasing his health for the past month. Now I feel as if Im getting ahead of it.


Lastly, stuff like this is what the chat threads are all about. Oh well, gotta go. This elf has to go back to work delivering presents....

Just went thru this with my 100 yo grandmother. It’s tough but the decisions need to be made and pushed forward. I had to get involved bc both my parents have passed so it was just my aunt and I left to take care of her and make decisions. Make sure you record the poa in your county, it’s a common mistake.

My wife says “ twice a child once an adult”, once you start caring for your parents and grandparents you realize it wholeheartedly. Hope he adjusts quickly and doesn’t give you too much pushback.
 
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Cougar281

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To expand a little on what N2BRK said about POA... as a PSA, it's also a good idea to have POA in place if one is going in for surgery... Just in case. Back in 2016, my grandfather went in for surgery to clean out his carotid arteries, a 'fairly routine' procedure.. And unfortunately, it was a good thing my grandmother got POA beforehand - he never woke up after the surgery. He came out of surgery and remained in a coma, and when it was apparent that he wasn't going to wake up and was moved to hospice, there were a few things that we had to take care of using the POA, and the night we had it all taken care of, as if he knew, he slipped away - Thanksgiving eve. I know it's not the happy cheery of the season, but it's one of those realities of life that we don't usually think about until its too late.
 
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