"Complete" Diesel Emissions comparison

[chevyburnout1]

All this EPA talk has got me thinking...

I'm not entirely sure about this as I've never had to emission my truck, but our diesel emissions program here in Colorado I believe only checks for visible particulate matter. Are there other states that have more strict diesel emission testing? As in checking for Carbon Monoxide (CO), Carbon Dioxide (CO2), and Oxides of Nitrogen (NOX)?

The reason I ask is I'm tired of hearing numerous people state tuning their truck makes it more efficient yet I can bet a good 80% of those people have no idea what is coming out of their tailpipe, me being included. If it looks clean, is it really clean?

Has anyone actually had their exhaust tested before and after 'tuning'. I have a Snap On HHGA5A emission's sniffer and 'supposedly' it can do diesels. I did some searching and it sounds like this is true, however it is hard on the machine.

There is a possibility that I can get two LMM's rounded up; my dad's which is completely bone stock, and a friend of his which I tuned in a DPF and EGR delete. However I probably wont be able to test till after the holidays though.

I would be very curious on any input on this. Not trying to start a bashing thread, more so just for my knowledge.

 

[02CCSB]

I would be really curious to see the outcome of a straight up comparison.

DPF/EGR deleted stock tune and several other tunes as well vs bone stock.

Good on you!

 

[Dan@PPE]

We have done it.... Interesting how the testing works, pretty stringent test....

 

[JoshH]

I think it's a good idea, and I would be interested in hearing what you find. If I recall correctly, Ben (duratothemax) did some testing with emissions on a chassis dyno a few years ago. Maybe he'll see this and chime in.

 

[btfarm]

We have done it.... Interesting how the testing works, pretty stringent test....

Will you share some findings?

 

[baggedLB7]

Not 100% sure that this is how they do all newer stuff here in the valley but with my truck which has no emissions stuff on it I still have to have an emissions test done to it which only consists of them pluging my truck into there equipment and my truck telling there equipment that the emission stuff is not available and them unpluging it and giving me a pass.
As far as the emissions equiped stuff I have only seen them do the same were they plug the truck in and it tells there equipment that all is working right and it passes.
I would also like to see the results of your test. Not that it will do any good or change what is going on with the EPA.

 

[MadMaxx61]

I will tell you this mine passed everything but the visual check for the DPF/DOC/EGR/PCV

but passed the test...

 

[bigmackmiller]

Will you share some findings?

X2

 

[duratothemax]

everyone thinks their tuning is badass because it makes a lot of power "AND ITS COMPLETELY CLEAN, NO SMOKE!!! WHY CANT GM MAKE 500HP, CLEARLY ITS EASY TO DO WITH NO SMOKE!!!!!11!!11"

Smoke is less than half the emissions battle with diesels. Its NOx that is killer (and creates smog, etc)...particulate matter-soot-is fairly benign compared to NOx as far as the environment is concerned. Diesels output many times more NOx than gas engines due to the differences in combustion temperatures and the way the engines burn.

So basically, just because your tune "looks" clean, doesnt mean its clean. At all. Playing around with timing can have a huge effect on NOx.

Ben

 

[mackthehack]

Here in Ca its visual inspection of emissions crap. After the new year all the smog machines are getting updated. By mid year all the updates and programming should be completed. And newer inspections will start. Which will include visual, computer hook up to the OBDII port to check for any disabled/hidden CEL's, DTC's.

A guy who runs a local fleet & performance diesel shop informed of this. When I had to get my truck smogged last week. This is all crap!

 

[chevyburnout1]

everyone thinks their tuning is badass because it makes a lot of power "AND ITS COMPLETELY CLEAN, NO SMOKE!!! WHY CANT GM MAKE 500HP, CLEARLY ITS EASY TO DO WITH NO SMOKE!!!!!11!!11"

Smoke is less than half the emissions battle with diesels. Its NOx that is killer (and creates smog, etc)...particulate matter-soot-is fairly benign compared to NOx as far as the environment is concerned. Diesels output many times more NOx than gas engines due to the differences in combustion temperatures and the way the engines burn.

So basically, just because your tune "looks" clean, doesnt mean its clean. At all. Playing around with timing can have a huge effect on NOx.

Ben

This is why I made this thread Ben. I believe a lot of us were stuck in the whole 'if its not smoking its clean' thought process. I'm very curious on what testing and findings have been done.

 

[chevyburnout1]

If I remember correctly, the creation of NOx gases are created once combustion chamber temperature exceeds a certain level. So in theory, could our EGT gauges be rough measurement of our NOx output?

Again I'm thinking in gasoline terms and have had no experience with this. Just trying to open up new thinking processes.

 

[lotsofmiles]

I always wanted to run mine in for a real tailpipe test (not required by law around here). wanted to do a with and without water spraying emissions test. Never found a place to do it, but I didnt look to hard either

 

[Dan@PPE]

Will you share some findings?

I will see what I can do. What info are you wanting?

everyone thinks their tuning is badass because it makes a lot of power "AND ITS COMPLETELY CLEAN, NO SMOKE!!! WHY CANT GM MAKE 500HP, CLEARLY ITS EASY TO DO WITH NO SMOKE!!!!!11!!11"

Smoke is less than half the emissions battle with diesels. Its NOx that is killer (and creates smog, etc)...particulate matter-soot-is fairly benign compared to NOx as far as the environment is concerned. Diesels output many times more NOx than gas engines due to the differences in combustion temperatures and the way the engines burn.

So basically, just because your tune "looks" clean, doesnt mean its clean. At all. Playing around with timing can have a huge effect on NOx.

Ben

This is 100% correct!

Here in Ca its visual inspection of emissions crap. After the new year all the smog machines are getting updated. By mid year all the updates and programming should be completed. And newer inspections will start. Which will include visual, computer hook up to the OBDII port to check for any disabled/hidden CEL's, DTC's.

A guy who runs a local fleet & performance diesel shop informed of this. When I had to get my truck smogged last week. This is all crap!

This testing is already being done in southern cali. Visual inspection, Checking for DTC's and Visible smoke output. Are you saying that the testing procedure is going to change again?

If I remember correctly, the creation of NOx gases are created once combustion chamber temperature exceeds a certain level. So in theory, could our EGT gauges be rough measurement of our NOx output?

Again I'm thinking in gasoline terms and have had no experience with this. Just trying to open up new thinking processes.

I don't know if its that simple but yes you are correct to a point.

 

[z79outlaw]

With a cam change in a common rail without any changes in the fueling you can get 2-3 mpgs but like Ben said it's all about NOx oems are handicapped by that mileage and power wise.

 

[chevyburnout1]

I will see what I can do. What info are you wanting?

Maybe a summary of what the common 'tuning' changes can cause with the emissions output. Say just upping the timing for a mileage tune, what percentage does NOx, CO, CO2 increase. Or decrease?

 

[Chevy1925]

AZ must not be stringent enough on NOX then or federal emissioned LB7s have a much higher limit on NOX. Every time ive taken my truck through testing, its been on some sort of tune (edge on lvl 3 the first year, PPE on lvl 3 the next, this custom tow tune from steve this past year). All but this past year have passed with flying colors. This past year, the retards at the facility could not get the truck to show a reading on the computer with their sniffer. the claimed it was cause my exhaust dumped under the truck yet it passed all years prior. After 4 runs they gave me a "directors cert" saying i was exempt from testing for 1 year.

IIRC, NOX level for my truck can not exceed 40ppm. ive always hit 20 or below. wish i had a stock reading to compare too but by the time i was required to test, it was already tuned.

im curious to see what someone could and could not do with tuning and emissions. it would be a cool test IMOP. out here all we get is "wait itll the green light, hold it floored for 5 sec, then let off".

 

[mackthehack]

This testing is already being done in southern cali. Visual inspection, Checking for DTC's and Visible smoke output. Are you saying that the testing procedure is going to change again?

Yes. Unless the updates and new testing has already started in OC and the other counties haven't been updated yet.

 

[btfarm]

Maybe a summary of what the common 'tuning' changes can cause with the emissions output. Say just upping the timing for a mileage tune, what percentage does NOx, CO, CO2 increase. Or decrease?

This and anything else you care to add into the discussion that isn't proprietary. I think at this stage we all are eyes and ears open for past, present and future thoughts. For educational purposes at least.

 

[Slammed2007Lbz]

What the bullshit part to me is, if you can make your truck pass the sniffer test for NOx then they shouldnt be able to do a visual check for emmisions equipment. For example on all my old gassers i deleted the catalytic convertors and they still passed with flying colors but when they did the visual check they would fail me and say i needed a convertor WTF!!! Why should you have to have all this equipment if the truck passes there standards without it? This was when Ohio had emissions testing facilities and then they found out what a waste of money it was and completely closed all of them back in 2002-2004.