"Complete" Diesel Emissions comparison

[duratothemax]

AZ must not be stringent enough on NOX then or federal emissioned LB7s have a much higher limit on NOX. Every time ive taken my truck through testing, its been on some sort of tune (edge on lvl 3 the first year, PPE on lvl 3 the next, this custom tow tune from steve this past year). All but this past year have passed with flying colors. This past year, the retards at the facility could not get the truck to show a reading on the computer with their sniffer. the claimed it was cause my exhaust dumped under the truck yet it passed all years prior. After 4 runs they gave me a "directors cert" saying i was exempt from testing for 1 year.

IIRC, NOX level for my truck can not exceed 40ppm. ive always hit 20 or below. wish i had a stock reading to compare too but by the time i was required to test, it was already tuned.

im curious to see what someone could and could not do with tuning and emissions. it would be a cool test IMOP. out here all we get is "wait itll the green light, hold it floored for 5 sec, then let off".

Is that NOx or particulate matter? It sounds like they are testing your particulate matter/soot output...not NOx. 20ppm NOx is incredibly low. IIRC the NOx sensors on the LML's can only read down to ~100ppm minimum.

I dont know of any places testing diesel exhaust for NOx....im pretty sure its particulate matter only.

 

[SSchmi5519]

Ben, how is NOx level with a tune that has less pulse than stock and properly calculated timing?

 

[btfarm]

What the bullshit part to me is, if you can make your truck pass the sniffer test for NOx then they shouldnt be able to do a visual check for emmisions equipment. For example on all my old gassers i deleted the catalytic convertors and they still passed with flying colors but when they did the visual check they would fail me and say i needed a convertor WTF!!! Why should you have to have all this equipment if the truck passes there standards without it? This was when Ohio had emissions testing facilities and then they found out what a waste of money it was and completely closed all of them back in 2002-2004.

It's a part of the federal government. They don't allow themselves to hire the best and brightest for fear of offending the worst and the dimmest (many of which are already employed by them).

 

[SSchmi5519]

Is that NOx or particulate matter? It sounds like they are testing your particulate matter/soot output...not NOx. 20ppm NOx is incredibly low. IIRC the NOx sensors on the LML's can only read down to ~100ppm minimum.

I dont know of any places testing diesel exhaust for NOx....im pretty sure its particulate matter only.

In arizona, diesel are subject to the SNAP test which is a test where you take it straight to the floor in neutral.

You are allowed a max of 40% opacity on the sensor. I usually pass with 4% on my economy tune.

 

[SoCalMike]

This testing is already being done in southern cali. Visual inspection, Checking for DTC's and Visible smoke output. Are you saying that the testing procedure is going to change again?

Yes. Unless the updates and new testing has already started in OC and the other counties haven't been updated yet.

I just read this... http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/80_BARR...atoryActions/Draft Smog Check Manual 2013.pdf

I know it is a draft but it looks like smog testing for diesels in 2013 will stay the same. go to the very last page.

 

[Slammed2007Lbz]

In arizona, diesel are subject to the SNAP test which is a test where you take it straight to the floor in neutral.

You are allowed a max of 40% opacity on the sensor. I usually pass with 4% on my economy tune.

Can you build a tune to change the throttle position or something so when you put the truck to the floor it only gets 50% throttle?

 

[Chevy1925]

Is that NOx or particulate matter? It sounds like they are testing your particulate matter/soot output...not NOx. 20ppm NOx is incredibly low. IIRC the NOx sensors on the LML's can only read down to ~100ppm minimum.

I dont know of any places testing diesel exhaust for NOx....im pretty sure its particulate matter only.

ah hell, no your right. i just pulled up my sheet. they are just testing "opacity" per the sheet i have infront of me. its the only thing they show tested wonder what the sheet shows for a LMM here in az if they test for anything else or if its still just opacity

 

[Chevy1925]

Can you build a tune to change the throttle position or something so when you put the truck to the floor it only gets 50% throttle?

sure can, well or atleast have that "effect" on it. think brian ran one of those tune on his last run through.

 

[mackthehack]

I just read this... http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/80_BARR...atoryActions/Draft Smog Check Manual 2013.pdf

I know it is a draft but it looks like smog testing for diesels in 2013 will stay the same. go to the very last page.

Hmm... I've had my truck smogged twice. Once in Temecula and this last one here in SBC. No snap test was done. Just visual for cat, egr, pcv and no CEL on.

Wondering if each county is slightly different. Since not every county requires smog checks.

Thanks for the link

 

[jmaz268]

sure can, well or atleast have that "effect" on it. think brian ran one of those tune on his last run through.

Think he has been running one of them for the past few years lol:roflmao:

 

[SoCalMike]

Hmm... I've had my truck smogged twice. Once in Temecula and this last one here in SBC. No snap test was done. Just visual for cat, egr, pcv and no CEL on.

Wondering if each county is slightly different. Since not every county requires smog checks.

Thanks for the link

No problem! :thumb:

They all "should test the same in callifornia.

 

[duratothemax]

ah hell, no your right. i just pulled up my sheet. they are just testing "opacity" per the sheet i have infront of me. its the only thing they show tested wonder what the sheet shows for a LMM here in az if they test for anything else or if its still just opacity

I dont think anywhere is NOx testing diesels yet.

particulate matter only.

 

[Chevy1925]

I dont think anywhere is NOx testing diesels yet.

particulate matter only.

i wonder why the EPA has not gotten on that issue then?

 

[jacobdewey]

With urea nox is reduced significantly... after the catalyst chamber nox breaks down into water and nitrogen. You can use urea to control nox without having a significant penalty of power or economy. Getting rid of particulate matter is a different story.

 

[chevyburnout1]

I just talked to one of the techs I work with as he has a 12 valve. How the county did it for him was a loaded dyno pull. Ran the vehicle up to 60mph then load the engine all the way down to 30mph. Measured opacity output during the load. This was just for Larimer county in Colorado. My truck is registered in the next county over which has no diesel emissions, yet.

i wonder why the EPA has not gotten on that issue then?

This is what I was wondering, as I believe NOx output is far more serious than particulate output. However the common public only sees particulates. If half the gasoline vehicles on the road didn't have catalytic converters the general public wouldn't even notice. I'm sure the EPA takes in both actual pollution and 'perceived' pollution into account.

 

[DAVe3283]

I just talked to one of the techs I work with as he has a 12 valve. How the county did it for him was a loaded dyno pull. Ran the vehicle up to 60mph then load the engine all the way down to 30mph. Measured opacity output during the load.

I wonder what would happen if they did that with my truck? The turbo would light pretty quick with a little smoke (probably still passing), but once lit, it would just smoke the tires as they tried to slow it down to 30MPH. Or was the test not at WOT? Or was it 30 to 60, not 60 to 30?

I also wonder why they don't measure NOx output at smog tests. Maybe the equipment is expensive, or there is too much variance in stock trucks (pre-LML)?

Besides the slightly increased cost/headache, I am not opposed to the urea injection system to reduce NOx, as it means better efficiency (mileage) and power while burning clean.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[lotsofmiles]

I thought they had more results in the paper copy, but here's the on line:

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1108dp_the_science_of_diesel_emissions_reduction/

 

[dmaxfireman]

I tested my truck (opacity test) on my BIG tune (aka daily driver) and passed with flying colors. Ben was there, they pulled my truck in and I said "OH S**T I forgot to switch my DSP2 switch.... oh well free retest..." and it passed anyway

 

[chevyburnout1]

I wonder what would happen if they did that with my truck? The turbo would light pretty quick with a little smoke (probably still passing), but once lit, it would just smoke the tires as they tried to slow it down to 30MPH. Or was the test not at WOT? Or was it 30 to 60, not 60 to 30?

It was from 60mph starting. So the throttle position stays at whatever percentage is needed to keep it at 60mph in 4th gear. Then the dyno simulates a hill or a load that is enough to drop the engine rpms slowly down to 30mph, at the same throttle percentage. The readings on the sheet were opacity at 60/40/30mph intervals.

 

[DAVe3283]

I thought they had more results in the paper copy, but here's the on line:

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1108dp_the_science_of_diesel_emissions_reduction/

That really feels like it is missing a page 2 or something. If there is more in the paper copy, I'd love to track one down to read.

It was from 60mph starting. So the throttle position stays at whatever percentage is needed to keep it at 60mph in 4th gear. Then the dyno simulates a hill or a load that is enough to drop the engine rpms slowly down to 30mph, at the same throttle percentage. The readings on the sheet were opacity at 60/40/30mph intervals.

Aah, OK. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

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