Yeah I went out there for the week and hit 5 pulls and my buddy brought his single engine big block its only about a 10 1/2hr ride from my house lol drove it there and home
Cheating in work stock
- Thread starter derek06
- Start date
Yeah I went out there for the week and hit 5 pulls and my buddy brought his single engine big block its only about a 10 1/2hr ride from my house lol drove it there and home
Diesel Technology Source
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All workstock pullers... We have $3250 for Workstock at our pull November 2 at Atlanta motor speedway! And there still vendors yet to commit. There could be more also put in by the time it gets here. Dieseltruckseries.com for rules!
You have a hard time believing what part? I have nothing against you or Doug or your trucks man, I am only pointing out that the way things have been going have not been according to the written rules of the club... across the board. If you guys want to walk around with your hands on your hips checking hitch heights, inciting searches, go for it, but it's drama like Saturday that keep some potential pullers away from the club all together, and that hurts us all.
You can assume we "set it up" too, lol. Aside from the headstuds and tuning, it is identical to how it was for the last 6yrs. We will be helping Cody a little more now though, at least we were able to figure out why he was limited to 21deg of timing all season until Saturday
You can assume we "set it up" too, lol. Aside from the headstuds and tuning, it is identical to how it was for the last 6yrs. We will be helping Cody a little more now though, at least we were able to figure out why he was limited to 21deg of timing all season until Saturday
Tim what's your issue with rules, and were you at the drivers meeting when they said they were checking trucks? Not trying to chase people away by following rules but believe it or not people won't come back if they play by the rules and nobody else does. But hey I was only asked to help at Hebron so I won't be at the scales chasing people away and you say we get 1 bye for the year good I haven't used mine maybe I'll go across the scale at 10k hanging weight and blocked solid with a 30" hitch and say this is my 1 bye for the year...
FYI: As soon as Mick found out we had Hebron signed to a contract, one of the first things he asked for was help teching the street classes (both gas and diesel). He knew Derek, Doug, and Brendon know the sport and know the diesels better than most (even me as I've been out of the game too long) so he asked them for help several months ago (one of our late winter meetings). I didn't object because I run around enough as it is and know I miss things. Some of the Enhanced street guys were concerned about the points and the Mulligan rule as many stated we would be seeing many "non-compliant" trucks in Hebron. It was voted on at the meeting that the Mulligan would not be granted for point/prizes at that one pull for both street classes as it was a new venue and geographical area (much like we did not grant Mulligans at Goshen Stampede years ago). We weren't going to tell people they couldn't pull if non-compliant, just they wouldn't be considered for points/prizes. Most had no issue at all with it and just wanted to pull their trucks.
Many people try to cheat, but I can tell you if I find something it is corrected that day (if possible) or by the next pull if not. I had actually backed away from teching after the Enhanced Street hitch BS where I boycotted several pulls (one of them being the McCrays pull when Wayne was president), and last year with the Superstock hitch BS where I personally contacted Larry Richwine.
There were several complaints about trucks in many classes and I was asked to take an active role in Cummington. There was a "high hitch" that I found in Cummington and because the person had been pulling with us for several pulls with that hitch, they did not get their payout and had a legal hitch by the next pull. We don't catch everything, but what we do is remedied or they don't pull.....that said we are not perfect.
There is a difference between finding a gray area, and cheating. If the motor rule reads 500 cubic inches and I'm 540, I know I'm cheating...no gray area about it.
As for said truck's weight, I would be really interested to know if it was there years ago when I pulled against it. Unfortunately we weren't looking for weight at that time as it was when our scales were broken and everyone was going on the honor system. We didn't think anyone would actually do something like that (except for Paul in the street gas class).
Edit: We actually had people say they don't want to pull with us because we have not been thoroughly checking (ie. Pumping) trucks in the Enhanced class. That's people not wanting to pull with people who are cheating, not people who don't want to pull because we are doing a "complete" tech check. One of the reasons I'm glad I've not been running my truck all year and it's also one of the reasons I stopped pulling my diesel. Aaron and Todd complained that I was making rules to fit "my truck" when I pulled diesel as we outlawed non factory twin turbo setups and aftermarket bumpers and winches. It was something that is almost universal in every workstock/street legal class I've seen, but yet I was accused of making them for "my truck". That made my decision to stop pulling it MUCH easier. It no longer became a conflict of interest.
Many people try to cheat, but I can tell you if I find something it is corrected that day (if possible) or by the next pull if not. I had actually backed away from teching after the Enhanced Street hitch BS where I boycotted several pulls (one of them being the McCrays pull when Wayne was president), and last year with the Superstock hitch BS where I personally contacted Larry Richwine.
There were several complaints about trucks in many classes and I was asked to take an active role in Cummington. There was a "high hitch" that I found in Cummington and because the person had been pulling with us for several pulls with that hitch, they did not get their payout and had a legal hitch by the next pull. We don't catch everything, but what we do is remedied or they don't pull.....that said we are not perfect.
There is a difference between finding a gray area, and cheating. If the motor rule reads 500 cubic inches and I'm 540, I know I'm cheating...no gray area about it.
As for said truck's weight, I would be really interested to know if it was there years ago when I pulled against it. Unfortunately we weren't looking for weight at that time as it was when our scales were broken and everyone was going on the honor system. We didn't think anyone would actually do something like that (except for Paul in the street gas class).
Edit: We actually had people say they don't want to pull with us because we have not been thoroughly checking (ie. Pumping) trucks in the Enhanced class. That's people not wanting to pull with people who are cheating, not people who don't want to pull because we are doing a "complete" tech check. One of the reasons I'm glad I've not been running my truck all year and it's also one of the reasons I stopped pulling my diesel. Aaron and Todd complained that I was making rules to fit "my truck" when I pulled diesel as we outlawed non factory twin turbo setups and aftermarket bumpers and winches. It was something that is almost universal in every workstock/street legal class I've seen, but yet I was accused of making them for "my truck". That made my decision to stop pulling it MUCH easier. It no longer became a conflict of interest.
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I wouldn't call that drama, drama is guys in your face screaming and throwing tantrums, been there...done that.
All in all things went smoothly, the biggest drama was with Superstock hitches.
Enforcing the rules is not drama. Yes, we should enforce them 100% at every pull, but for volunteers (unless we get more help) we do the best we can with the time and space we get. It sure opened my eyes as I would not expect to see a lot of what we saw the other night. I guess I'm a little naive when it comes to certain things. Luckily we had plenty of time (wished we had a little more space but that was due to scale placement not knowing what it was going to be like) and were able to do a good check (even then I'm sure things slipped through). Heck we even told the Marcotted truck they couldn't pull. Then Jeff came over and was able to fix it so they could pull for points/prizes. I'm glad people stepped up for the diesel class at least as we had the most we've ever had by FAR.
I know a few trucks who might not be happy at McCrays, luckily I won't be there so it can't be called a witch hunt. My truck will be making an exibition pass without me as my exhaust will be too short for the rules and I'll be at the Buck. Plus I promised Chad he could pilot it in the fun class. I'm hoping the whole event goes well as I think it's a good thing for the sports that are represented there.
Sad.
I don't understand cheating. It means a lot to win the right way. Those who cheat and win as a result, it can't be fulfilling as they themselves know it wasn't legit. I guess the $ or payout is that important to them.
I don't understand cheating. It means a lot to win the right way. Those who cheat and win as a result, it can't be fulfilling as they themselves know it wasn't legit. I guess the $ or payout is that important to them.
I didn't get in here to cry "everyone's against Cody." I was unaware that some rules were changed for 1 pull, thanks for clearing that up. As you know, Goshen was different, as has been Truckfest in the past because a separate membership fee was charged to pull for payout and points up until this year. I am glad that was changed, It was the single best thing the club did this year. In Goshen, where I was the tech for all classes along with some sporadic help, we pushed newcomers to pull in the fun classes if they wanted payout so they could follow the looser rules they were used to there in CT. They didn't want to pull the points class if they had to drop another $100. The 1st round bye rule (which I did NOT infer could be used at any one pull of the season) was pretty irrelevant there for that reason- the majority of the trucks (except the 2 (I think) new sign ups there in the diesel class, and I think around 10 overall in all classes) that would've had to use it were pushed to those alternative classes. So as far as I can still remember, that allowance was never actually foregone at any MATPA points pull in the last 7 years I've been involved.
The drama I was referring to was the crowds of people around all the trucks after the finger pointing started...that was unprofessional when it happened to the CT boys that wanted to pull with us the last couple years in the gas classes, and it was unprofessional in Hebron in this class. In the past couple years when I was helping out, we all seemed to agree that it was best to deal with issues and questions in private with the truck owner/driver (as I did with you Derek in Westfield when everyone asked me how a stock regular cab could put 20ft on the field) to keep from making it a spectacle event. I have no issue with volunteers helping the club out, until this year I was one of them every single chance I had. I only have an issue with the biased treatment at the scales as a result of it. If you think we are the only ones noticing it, think again. (I wasn't even aware of it until a few people from other classes and even non-pullers asked me what the heck was going on)
And to answer your question Chris, about whether or not the truck was like that when you pulled against it and even helped tech it - yes, it was some of the time...I give Shawn a LOT of credit designing that ballast...I was like "no F-in way" when I first saw it and thought of all the times he smoked you, us, and Todd even a couple times back then.
Hell, even Lavoie was freighted pulling his 6.0l with weights stacked up in in front floor lol and we knew it...why do you think we gave such a fight about the steel front bumper rule? Things that were not clearly visible to the naked eye went uncontested back then and in some cases still do apparently... some just hide it better than others.
Also, please understand I am not here to bash the club...If I had such a big problem with the club or all the rules or whatever people want to think I have a problem with, I wouldn't even bother being a part of it at all. I am only pointing out a few flaws that have come to people's attention all season, that if are not addressed it will not be the anti-Barker club anymore, since the diesels are what bring the majority of the spectators nowadays...it'll be the anti-diesel club which we have worked so hard to avoid the last 7+ years. (Hence why I still stand behind my statement that regardless of whatever FB comments are made about the sled, club, your friend's cousin's mom, whatever it may be....inviting more competition from other areas like Todd did in Northampton is the best thing the club can do for their attendance and their value as a show.)
The drama I was referring to was the crowds of people around all the trucks after the finger pointing started...that was unprofessional when it happened to the CT boys that wanted to pull with us the last couple years in the gas classes, and it was unprofessional in Hebron in this class. In the past couple years when I was helping out, we all seemed to agree that it was best to deal with issues and questions in private with the truck owner/driver (as I did with you Derek in Westfield when everyone asked me how a stock regular cab could put 20ft on the field) to keep from making it a spectacle event. I have no issue with volunteers helping the club out, until this year I was one of them every single chance I had. I only have an issue with the biased treatment at the scales as a result of it. If you think we are the only ones noticing it, think again. (I wasn't even aware of it until a few people from other classes and even non-pullers asked me what the heck was going on)
And to answer your question Chris, about whether or not the truck was like that when you pulled against it and even helped tech it - yes, it was some of the time...I give Shawn a LOT of credit designing that ballast...I was like "no F-in way" when I first saw it and thought of all the times he smoked you, us, and Todd even a couple times back then.
Hell, even Lavoie was freighted pulling his 6.0l with weights stacked up in in front floor lol and we knew it...why do you think we gave such a fight about the steel front bumper rule? Things that were not clearly visible to the naked eye went uncontested back then and in some cases still do apparently... some just hide it better than others.
Also, please understand I am not here to bash the club...If I had such a big problem with the club or all the rules or whatever people want to think I have a problem with, I wouldn't even bother being a part of it at all. I am only pointing out a few flaws that have come to people's attention all season, that if are not addressed it will not be the anti-Barker club anymore, since the diesels are what bring the majority of the spectators nowadays...it'll be the anti-diesel club which we have worked so hard to avoid the last 7+ years. (Hence why I still stand behind my statement that regardless of whatever FB comments are made about the sled, club, your friend's cousin's mom, whatever it may be....inviting more competition from other areas like Todd did in Northampton is the best thing the club can do for their attendance and their value as a show.)
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Crowdes of people? There was what 4 people doing tech for the 40+ trucks in the class to try and speed things up. And the 3 of us did not make any final calls we would only point out to Chris and leave it up to him as me and Doug were in the class and I knew if I said someone couldn't run it would start that I was scared of competition... But I'll say I was going to pull next year till we found out Cody was cheating to keep up so ill take a few years off from work stock locally and let you guys figure out his truck and maybe I'll come back unless I've built something else.
But this was not a thread about Cody's truck this was about other clubs around the country and people cheating in the class and how so we can all have something to look for.
But this was not a thread about Cody's truck this was about other clubs around the country and people cheating in the class and how so we can all have something to look for.
Just curious why would you not pull because of people cheating you were winning anyway? You can go over his truck with a fine tooth comb for as long as you like when it's done here getting a revamp it will be 100% legal. But we are willing to help him with anything he needs to be competitive in work stock regardless of what it is as long as it complies.
For me it takes all the fun out of it if you always go out and win or are 2nd to your brother and others are cheating to keep up. I've said it before the best year I had was when Pete was blowing my doors off and I spent all season chasing him down and getting closer every pull. Plus for some reason people don't want to pull against my truck around here, I can't even go up to New Hampshire or Maine without the truck being known.
And I will not be the one going over the truck as I am not a tech official was only asked to help out at Hebron and I was ready to wave him off the scale till Brendon looked under the truck and Cody said the truck came with that brace and he took a double take and seen the weights. If he didn't go to Hebron or have said anything it probably would have gone right by like it has for years.
It will be fun for you chasing Cody next year then
I'll go to 1 or 2 but I won't be there all year of he gets me then maybe I'll come back out with it but I have a 2wd truck I need to finish first
This is one of the reasons why I retired my workstock truck and started to build the truck I run now.
Out of sheer curiosity what and who defines what is allowed to get by with this "mulligan rule?" To Derek's point if someone rolls across with 30" height, hanging weight and weighing 10k is that ok? Will trucks using this mulligan be able to compete for prize money?
Would about jumping up in class. If a 2.5 truck wants to pull 3.0 then does the 2.5 truck need to meet 3.0 rules? I know in the past it was fine but is that not the case anymore?
Would about jumping up in class. If a 2.5 truck wants to pull 3.0 then does the 2.5 truck need to meet 3.0 rules? I know in the past it was fine but is that not the case anymore?
Technically they are supposed to be set up for the class they are running ie why I have u joint shields drive shaft loops electric and air shut off along with a trans blanket... But others who do not have all safety equipment have still been allowed to jump up and run with the 3.0 trucks but were told have them for next year or at least I was last year
The mulligan rule was really for something that could not be changed for that class that day, but could be changed in a week or overnight for the next pull. Hitch height on an adjustable hitch is obviously not going to be looked at as a reason for a mulligan haha, nor will a hanging weight bracket or being grossly overweight or solid blocked with adjustable blocks. If we had pictures of Shawn's/Cody's setup you'd understand why it takes a forklift to install and remove. Either way, he rolled across the scales at 8k every time with 1" travel and under 26" hitch height. The rule was intended for new sign-ups too, people who wanted to comply with the rules but could not at that first hook. Just like the supreme court looking at the Constitution, the intention of a rule has to be considered in all situations in order to enforce it properly. Chris earlier referred to last year and even years earlier when he was trying to enforce the mulligan rule against guys with hitches that chose not to make them legal all season...it was himself against like 10 people....the only way for him to make a point was to boycott the pulls unfortunately.
I cannot comment on the 2.5 trucks being automatically legal for pro-stock because as derek said, I was not in attendance of this off-season's meetings because I was working 7 days a week trying to start up our business and work at the VA and not be AWOL from the military...but based on precedence, it is currently true that one doesn't have to change anything to move up into pro-stock.