Brodix cylinder heads for the Duramax
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As much as I agree there is a mArket for them and it's not the DD on the street guy it's the pushing the envelope on the strip and if you don't have any competition at the the time I guess you can get whatever the market will bare at that time.I would love to see a before and after dyno run just to compare.whether it's a vacuum system or a huge turbo pushing I'm a big believer in porting, there's power in cfm.
Sent from a black cloud and the smell of burnt rubber.
Have you flowed a set of stock heads yourself or guessing?
My flow numbers on a stock set come back as 258 on intake and 221 on exhaust @ .500 lift. Mild porting puts them to 270 intake and 260 exhaust on just a street port on stock heads.
SoCal stage two flow much better than the above numbers i listed, but not for me to post those.
yes , I have, in fact I use a flow bench a lot , and the stock flow is as I have said , and I have the flow number for Socal if you want me to post it , flow number are not a big secret . how you get those number is.
so on your flow bench just double the stock head flow and that is what the new heads flow.
you might need to calibrate you flow bench , or use the right percentage numbers
the best numbers from one of the best porters in the country is around 250 to 260 on extreme ported heads.
as to Cost , come on the heads should he half the cost of your build in a true all out motor
Who says what after market heads "SHOULD BE" A guy can make a decent buck and not gouge people.How is it you can get a set of BBC after market rods for 4 to 600 but someone makes them for the diesel market and they are 2600?And yes in the beginning prices are a bit higher to pay for production and development but man 6500 limits you to the top 1/2 %of the diesel world......the top pro racers.This is only my oppinon, I still can't wait to see what these will do but as much as I would love a set I will never have them.
x2
I'd love a set, but at that price, there is no way. Maybe Edelbrock's set will be cheap enough I can afford it?
From one to the top cylinder head guys in the country for stock/super stock cars. I have not seen flow bench numbers for these Brodix so won't comment. If someone else has flow numbers on stock heads, it would be nice to see them. Be really great if there is no conflict of interest in posting the data.
Great that they are doing that! 6000 grand is a pretty big turbo setup though
Honestly I would prefer a full different style head and block if I was gonna go that way
It all comes down to x amount of hp vs y cost imo:rofl:
Honestly I would prefer a full different style head and block if I was gonna go that way
It all comes down to x amount of hp vs y cost imo:rofl:
Finally, aftermarket heads for the Dmax. Pretty exciting stuff! I can't wait to get my hands on some!
Everyone has been racing dynos for a few years, dynos have pretty much become advertising tools, rather than R&D tools. Most operators have figured out how to make the dyno read anything they want. It has become a race to see who can make the biggest number real or imagined.
I guess now it's time to race flow benches.
The problem you have in both instances is the lack of accurate repeatable testing.
On to cylinder heads…………
Most people don't realize how sensitive the Dmax head is to bore diameter. This is actually true with most cylinder heads but more so with the Dmax than any other head I have seen in my 31 year career working with and flow testing cylinder heads.
The Dmax valves are so close to the cylinder wall, that the effective flow area of the valve is greatly reduced. This is one of the reasons Mr. Wagler chose to relocate the valves more to the center of the cylinder. An excellent idea in my opinion, great job!
As you can see, flow testing a cylinder head on a bigger bore than what will actually be used, will result in inflated numbers and inaccurate data. Worse yet is not having a fixture that accurately locates the head as it will be used on the block.
Most flow benches are purchased with some generic acrylic flow fixture and the user is instructed to “eyeball” the head on the fixture and hold it down with some C clamps. I’ve tested this on a Dmax head and missing the location by .010 can cause differences in flow of 10-15 cfm. Push the head to one side or the other by .060 and you magically pick wondrous amounts of flow. Pretty cool stuff for advertising!
Below are some pictures of our flow fixture and flow bench. Our flow fixture allows us to change bore sizes very quickly with interchangeable cylinders, The top plate is also easily interchangeable for different bore sizes as well as cylinder head configurations. We have manufactured Dmax plates in most of the common Dmax bore sizes 4.055, 4.075, 4.095, 4.115, and 4.200.
The top plate allows us to mount the cylinder head once, and then slide from cylinder to cylinder in order to test all four cylinders without ever unbolting the head. The top plate is located for each bore center location with dowel pins as well.
So let’s all be sure to ask a couple of things when we see flow numbers posted.
1) Was the head flowed on a fixture with the correct location for the block? I.E. dowel pins on the correct bore center and location on the block.
2) What bore size was used?
3) What pressure was the head flowed at? Typically 28” of H2O. Although there is a very good argument for testing at higher pressures, let's just be sure we are comparing apples to apples and not apples to rutabagas.
Below is the acrylic type universal fixture that is shipped with most flow benches.
Everyone has been racing dynos for a few years, dynos have pretty much become advertising tools, rather than R&D tools. Most operators have figured out how to make the dyno read anything they want. It has become a race to see who can make the biggest number real or imagined.
I guess now it's time to race flow benches.
The problem you have in both instances is the lack of accurate repeatable testing.
On to cylinder heads…………
Most people don't realize how sensitive the Dmax head is to bore diameter. This is actually true with most cylinder heads but more so with the Dmax than any other head I have seen in my 31 year career working with and flow testing cylinder heads.
The Dmax valves are so close to the cylinder wall, that the effective flow area of the valve is greatly reduced. This is one of the reasons Mr. Wagler chose to relocate the valves more to the center of the cylinder. An excellent idea in my opinion, great job!
As you can see, flow testing a cylinder head on a bigger bore than what will actually be used, will result in inflated numbers and inaccurate data. Worse yet is not having a fixture that accurately locates the head as it will be used on the block.
Most flow benches are purchased with some generic acrylic flow fixture and the user is instructed to “eyeball” the head on the fixture and hold it down with some C clamps. I’ve tested this on a Dmax head and missing the location by .010 can cause differences in flow of 10-15 cfm. Push the head to one side or the other by .060 and you magically pick wondrous amounts of flow. Pretty cool stuff for advertising!
Below are some pictures of our flow fixture and flow bench. Our flow fixture allows us to change bore sizes very quickly with interchangeable cylinders, The top plate is also easily interchangeable for different bore sizes as well as cylinder head configurations. We have manufactured Dmax plates in most of the common Dmax bore sizes 4.055, 4.075, 4.095, 4.115, and 4.200.
The top plate allows us to mount the cylinder head once, and then slide from cylinder to cylinder in order to test all four cylinders without ever unbolting the head. The top plate is located for each bore center location with dowel pins as well.
So let’s all be sure to ask a couple of things when we see flow numbers posted.
1) Was the head flowed on a fixture with the correct location for the block? I.E. dowel pins on the correct bore center and location on the block.
2) What bore size was used?
3) What pressure was the head flowed at? Typically 28” of H2O. Although there is a very good argument for testing at higher pressures, let's just be sure we are comparing apples to apples and not apples to rutabagas.
Below is the acrylic type universal fixture that is shipped with most flow benches.
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These numbers are for LB7 Federal Heads Stock.
These numbers are what just about all of the stock Dmax heads flow. LB7-LML. The port shapes and sizes are all basically the same.
The only exception is the LB7 EGR head. The intake ports on the EGR head flow substantially less. If I recall correctly about 40 cfm less. The exhaust ports are the same as federal heads.
So here they are. Let the marketing and advertising of flow numbers begin. :rofl:
These numbers are what just about all of the stock Dmax heads flow. LB7-LML. The port shapes and sizes are all basically the same.
The only exception is the LB7 EGR head. The intake ports on the EGR head flow substantially less. If I recall correctly about 40 cfm less. The exhaust ports are the same as federal heads.
So here they are. Let the marketing and advertising of flow numbers begin. :rofl:
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Guy for the win!
Edit: I really need to ditch my EGR heads. I am sure that my 2 valve Harley heads flow much better than that pulling air through the 40mm carb...
Edit: I really need to ditch my EGR heads. I am sure that my 2 valve Harley heads flow much better than that pulling air through the 40mm carb...
The cylinder head with the larger ports is actually the EGR head. The entrance is huge but 2" down the runner it is actually quite smaller than the federal head.
Shape has a lot to do with it, but fundamentally the smallest cross sectional area of the port will determine peak flow.
I'm starting to see more and more cylinder heads where someone has enlarged the intake port entrance to some huge dimension and polished it up real pretty but left the real restriction deep down inside the port almost stock. Probably because that is the hard part to port.
The same on the exhaust, some huge exhaust exit at the flange but not much else done other than polishing.
And these so called experts and their fan boys run around the internet claiming how great they are, yet neither have any fundamental understanding of how cylinder head flow actually works.
End rant!
Sorry to hijack the thread, just a little FYI for everybody.
Back to the discussion at hand.
Brodix Dmax cylinder heads designed by Wagler Competition. Well done Mr. Wagler! :thumb:
Shape has a lot to do with it, but fundamentally the smallest cross sectional area of the port will determine peak flow.
I'm starting to see more and more cylinder heads where someone has enlarged the intake port entrance to some huge dimension and polished it up real pretty but left the real restriction deep down inside the port almost stock. Probably because that is the hard part to port.
The same on the exhaust, some huge exhaust exit at the flange but not much else done other than polishing.
And these so called experts and their fan boys run around the internet claiming how great they are, yet neither have any fundamental understanding of how cylinder head flow actually works.
End rant!
Sorry to hijack the thread, just a little FYI for everybody.
Back to the discussion at hand.
Brodix Dmax cylinder heads designed by Wagler Competition. Well done Mr. Wagler! :thumb:
I love Guys stuff and use his heads on my truck. Im not in any way saying the Brodix are better then anyones but they are bad a$$
One of the best mods i know about these Brodix heads is they are cupless for the LB7 which i like. Jeremy shared a bunch more info that makes these heads look serious and promising but ill let him post up about the heads. There is a ton more mods to the heads and they are far from a ported stock head. From what i was told i think the $6500 is worth it.
One of the best mods i know about these Brodix heads is they are cupless for the LB7 which i like. Jeremy shared a bunch more info that makes these heads look serious and promising but ill let him post up about the heads. There is a ton more mods to the heads and they are far from a ported stock head. From what i was told i think the $6500 is worth it.