Bonneville Engine:

McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
11,249
26
38
64
Norco CA
www.mcratracing.com
wouldent to much cooling cause it to crack like throwing a hot glass in cold water ?

Not that I've seen. Cracking can always form from un-even heating, since part of it expands more than the other, but aluminum pistons don't seem to.

I've got pistons here that are melted on one side, but underneath the crown, it didn't even get hot enough to varnish the oil.
 

sweetdiesel

That's better
Aug 6, 2006
10,390
0
0
52
Thailand
A systemic look at all the oil plumbing will probably yield 20% min. more flow. I think the pump is capable.

For example look at the oil filter. 13/16" compared to 1"-1 1/8" with the competition. That's a 40% difference in x-section and velocity.

so how do you fix that?
 

Leadfoot

Needs Bigger Tires!
Dec 27, 2006
904
31
28
48
Western MA
www.matpa.org
didnt the block that Merchant's recently "finished" lly stroker twin-turbo have a lot of oiling upgrades like ported squirters among others?

I believe his comment about ported squirters was a joke. I will take a look at the post again and check, but I believe Ben (DuratotheMax) asked Eric about his comment and he said it was a joke and wondered who would be the first to catch it.


Edit from post #276

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaxalliTech
These squirters are calibrated and extruded for more flow to help cool the bottom of the pistons. It was recommended by Mahle that more flow was needed for the forged pistons.

Also, the check ball in them was removed and a temp activated solonoid is used to control the oil flow to them

Nobody picked up on that bit o sarcasm huh

That beefy girdle will tie that bottom end together very nicely. The manufacturer of it came up with the slick idea to cut down the oil pan rail to take care clearance issues to the front diff. You guys with big builds will want one of them IMO. No pan or pickup tube modification will be needed for installing one of these. I thought for sure we would hae to shorten the pickup tube to make it all work correctly but after cutting a lower oil pan in half and mocking it all up, there is less then 1/8" difference in where the pickup sits in relation to the bottom of the pan. I'm happy with that.
 
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keith2500hd

MOTORKILLER
Jul 20, 2008
57
0
0
Burlington,iowa
with the run duration, things you thought will change. by video of your run the hopping your crankshaft is bouncing back and forth, which transfers to piston tops oscilating, not steady rotation like you expect. saw data/video on offshore inboard racing engine(early 80's), crank/cam position sensors, almost 1/4 twist on crank coming out and going in to water, similar amout reflected to cam. overfueling on continuos pull is different than short burst pulls, heat soak and rejection start to switch places and softer metals will give(piston tops), an aluminum head expands and valve seats migrate with valve movement, thermal attraction of like metals and temp ranges. over/under flow of coolants(air; intake and cooling, fuel, oil and water) and you won't get good thermal transfer, look at high performance piston aircraft engines they had louvers that moved during various temp of engine to control heat transfer. when looking for examples when considering component mods, look at high performance diesel marine engines, example; Isotto-Franchini, scarab(ford tractor) marine merlin=300HP Inline6. Paxman out of england makes larger engines, henry ricardo ran this company's engineering from 1930's to 50's. on salt for hp calcs, can't remember what they refered to it as but i think it was frontal horsepower load, similar to planning hull to displacement hull boat, 10% increase requires about 2-4X power, depending on variables. good luck
 

mytmousemalibu

Cut your ride, sissy!
Apr 12, 2008
2,230
0
0
Kansas
with the run duration, things you thought will change. by video of your run the hopping your crankshaft is bouncing back and forth, which transfers to piston tops oscilating, not steady rotation like you expect. saw data/video on offshore inboard racing engine(early 80's), crank/cam position sensors, almost 1/4 twist on crank coming out and going in to water, similar amout reflected to cam. overfueling on continuos pull is different than short burst pulls, heat soak and rejection start to switch places and softer metals will give(piston tops), an aluminum head expands and valve seats migrate with valve movement, thermal attraction of like metals and temp ranges. over/under flow of coolants(air; intake and cooling, fuel, oil and water) and you won't get good thermal transfer, look at high performance piston aircraft engines they had louvers that moved during various temp of engine to control heat transfer. when looking for examples when considering component mods, look at high performance diesel marine engines, example; Isotto-Franchini, scarab(ford tractor) marine merlin=300HP Inline6. Paxman out of england makes larger engines, henry ricardo ran this company's engineering from 1930's to 50's. on salt for hp calcs, can't remember what they refered to it as but i think it was frontal horsepower load, similar to planning hull to displacement hull boat, 10% increase requires about 2-4X power, depending on variables. good luck


Well said! We ran an Outlaw Pro-mod Nova, running a 526ci blown Arias hemi, well in this class of car and others slower and faster, these issues are relevent. Our motor in piticular runs a Velasco Billet steel crankshaft, and its ungodly strong! During tire-shake, the crank can go into a wave like occilation of the crank whipping around! Our machinist that balences our cranks was pissed that the crank ate like 7 of his expensive balence drill bits, yet the crank will deform like this. If the engine gets bogged down or clutch issues arrive, the crank gets thrown forward into the thrust main and eats it. The rear thrust main takes a beating in this engine, nor is it fun to change between rounds on a hot motor:p Also, beenings the block is solid aluminum, the main caps are also aluminum! albiet very beefy! :D
 

dmax65

New member
Feb 2, 2008
5
0
0
Pat,
What you are experiencing is what we found during the development of our off-shore boat program. The engine's week links would show up after continuous operation at high power levels for more than 30-40 minutes. Sometimes in excess of 900hp. The calibrations were always what I concidered "safe" tunes. The cooling system gets very sensitive and can easily form gas pockets in a few seconds. The connecting rods would consistantly pound out the bushing due to the fact there was never an chance oil would gravity feed to the bottom of the bushing, that's why I did the forced pin oiling on my X-beam rods. The next thing you will experience is the dropping of exhaust valves even when EGT's are low....that will mess you up. I have some suggestions if you are interested.
Curtis
 

Sledhead

Mountain Pass Machine
Nov 29, 2008
884
0
16
BC
Hopefully this effort will assist others who want to build Dmaxes that give good service life in competition. To be honest, the fatality rate on built engines is very high. We increased the power at the expense of lifespan. What we learn, good and bad, should get us some more insight as to how to make one live.

I'll second that ^^^
 

IBDMAX'IN

New member
Aug 27, 2008
40
0
0
Any consideration in going with a dry sump oil system? Although pricey, they will help with a lot of the oiling issue's you are seeing due to lack of volume and pressure. And making sure that each vital part of the engine is getting the amount of pressure and volume you want it to is a breeze with these systems.

But if your trying to work on the factory system, more power to ya, let us know if you find ways of making it work :)
 

McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
11,249
26
38
64
Norco CA
www.mcratracing.com
The "fantasy" engine would be one that would not transfer heat to start with. Heat is what drives the engine, so the more that stays in gases, the more power potential.

Coating theoritically could work, but in practice, I'm burning through it into the pistons. So what other options are there for keeping the heat from going into:

Heads
Valves
Pistons
Cylinders?

A coating that didn't work for me on the pistons, might work on the heads. Pistons are the biggest problem. A graphite, titanium, or tungsten based coating?
 

JOHNBOY

< Rocking the Big Single!
Aug 30, 2006
2,159
0
0
Saegertown, Pa
Graphite would not work. It survives heat by transfering it so fast. It might make the problem worse as it actually conducts heat thru it so well.
 

RPM Motorsports

smokinum
May 13, 2008
3,271
10
38
Central Valley Ca.
Some kind of carbon coating maybee! We media blast/deburr the tops of our race pistons (methanol) instead of polishing or coating them. It is said to block the heat transfer much better once the carbon layer builds, instead of Reflecting the heat with a polished/smooth surface. The blasting of the tops helps the carbon stick. Wonder if somebody makes a carbon based coating for the piston tops. Maybee even for the exhaust runners somehow:eek: