batmo turbos, fact or hype?
- Thread starter moss
- Start date
So maybe this has been answered and I just didn't catch it, but for us guys with a twin setup with a s475 over stocker, is there any advantage to doing a batmo on either turbo, and if no one has really done any testing then I guess I'll try one or the other, just didn't know if you guys have any opinion on which one to swap out first.
Im running a 475 over stock and put a billet in the 475 after driving it for a couple weeks and there was a noticeable spool improvment over the cast. I have been thinking about the bat in the stocker for even better spool but havent pulled the trig yet and unless something has changed they do not sell the bat wheel for the 475 seperate it has to be bought with the turbo.
Cool thanks for the info. Thats what I was starting to realize, that they don't sell it unless you buy the turbo. So looks like I'm in the market for a billet wheel for my 475.
I sent mine to Mark and it came back with a Bat, not sure all what he had to do though.
Yea thats kind of what i've heard, is I should send the turbo out somewhere to get a different wheel put in it. Might have to give Mark a call.
My stock batwheel spools quicker for sure than the stock so it def couldnt hurt in a twin setup?
Mark does great work whether it's his turbo's or his tuning. He has done all my turbo and tuning on my truck and I love it. Last year with his stg.2 68mm and his s480 batmo my truck made 768hp with the stock engine.
He must do like I do and order every charger with a double bat wheel. When someone wants a cast or billet wheel they are easy enough to get and swap in, then we end up with extra BatMoWheels for guys like you.
Nice :thumb:
After driving mine a good bit I am a believer in the batmowheels. Pretty wild how fast it spools up for a big charger.. Has a mean sound too. Hoping to hit the dyno at TS this year.
The one thing I tell guys that ask me about the Batmo wheel is that you have to consider the design of the wheel beyond the fancy curvy blades. The Bat is typically a 6 blade borg based billet design. A 6 blade design is great for low pressure volume, thats why testing of a cast S366 7 blade wheel vs a Billet 6 blade, spools or feels stronger in the low end despite the wheels weighing nearly the same. Essentially its getting more air (quantifiable volume) with less RPM and boost, which equates to more torque, which makes the seat of the pants dyno, feel a gain in the driving experience.
The drop in replacemets: Take Dustins Dyno results for example. An LLY is already a 63.5mm Inducer, 11 blade design. The entire school of thought and reasoning for VNT technology is to create pressure for the emissions equipment to work properly. VNT to make drive pressure down low to push Exhaust gas through the cooler and such, to pass emissions standards. 11 blade design essentially because its quiet. The Stock compressor with an upgraded turbine is capable of supporting 615+ RWHP. In Dustins case the Stock vs Bat was limited by a stock turbine wheel. So by ditching the 11 blade wheel, and going to a 6 blade design he gained volumetric air flow, which equats to more HP and TQ.
In Dustin's case, did the Batmo wheel work? Absolutely! Is that the same kind of results for every application? Absolutely not. On a 6.7 Cummins; which is a 60mm Holset 7 Blade design vs a 60mm 6 blade Batmo replacement the gains seen were negligable.
So... Is the Batmo wheel a good upgrade for some applications? I think so. Is it meanest baddest thing since sliced bread? I think thats yet to be determined.
Caleb
The drop in replacemets: Take Dustins Dyno results for example. An LLY is already a 63.5mm Inducer, 11 blade design. The entire school of thought and reasoning for VNT technology is to create pressure for the emissions equipment to work properly. VNT to make drive pressure down low to push Exhaust gas through the cooler and such, to pass emissions standards. 11 blade design essentially because its quiet. The Stock compressor with an upgraded turbine is capable of supporting 615+ RWHP. In Dustins case the Stock vs Bat was limited by a stock turbine wheel. So by ditching the 11 blade wheel, and going to a 6 blade design he gained volumetric air flow, which equats to more HP and TQ.
In Dustin's case, did the Batmo wheel work? Absolutely! Is that the same kind of results for every application? Absolutely not. On a 6.7 Cummins; which is a 60mm Holset 7 Blade design vs a 60mm 6 blade Batmo replacement the gains seen were negligable.
So... Is the Batmo wheel a good upgrade for some applications? I think so. Is it meanest baddest thing since sliced bread? I think thats yet to be determined.
Caleb
I have really only noticed a noise increase with running back to back seat-of-the-pants test: cast wheel S475 v. Batmo S475. Same everything except compressor wheel. After talking with David at DTS, I now understand why. All my future $$ will be spent on "standard" compressor wheels from now on.
well you can call David and ask him to explain it better than I can, but in essence: the general shape of the batmo wheels is exactly the same as a cast wheel, the leading edges are flattened and create more surface area than a standard wheel, which leads to turbulence. The main reason the wheels may spool a bit faster is because of the weight distribution of the wheel compared to a standard cast wheel - it is slightly more centralized. FWIW, Forced Inductions offers LI wheels which are cast wheels with essentially the same distribution of mass as Batmo wheels for much less $$ and they are also "dyno proven." I have a 78mm version that I wont be using for a while, if ever, that I bought on impulse last fall when my turbo crapped out....If anyone wants to do a BTB comparison with it, be my guest.
I have heard most of the theroy's on wheel design , and the difference between the 6 blade VS 7 , and the reasons why the 6 flows more in the lower PR's , the problem is most theroy's result in the 6 blade falling off in the higher PR's , I haven't been able to verify this aspect of it , I will say for a fact that in regards to the billet or BATMO I have never lost HP / increased EGT's or anything suggesting a loss in air flow. Also more than once we have purposely found the limmit to a wheel design by monitoring boost VS drive , when you push a comp past its peak area you will hit a point that to get any more boost out of it the drive goes up exponentially in relation to the boost , from our testing on the billets and BATMO's I haven't seen being close to that point up to 50 psi in the S400 frame stuff , so if its hurting airflow in the higher PR's its above were they run on most of our trucks and we still get to enjoy the gain in the lower PR's , whether that worth the money is a personal question , IMOP the cost of the standard billet wheels the bang for the buck is there to make it a worthy upgrade.
Just going to throw in a quick comment:
When the BatMo wheels came out I was very skeptical that they were anything special or worth buying and thought they were just a fancy leading edge on the blades. I took 7 blade cast, straight 6 blade billet, and 6 blade single Bat S475 wheels and laid them out to compare. The difference in blade profile is not only along the leading edge of the blades - they have a different profile all the way down the blades.
When the BatMo wheels came out I was very skeptical that they were anything special or worth buying and thought they were just a fancy leading edge on the blades. I took 7 blade cast, straight 6 blade billet, and 6 blade single Bat S475 wheels and laid them out to compare. The difference in blade profile is not only along the leading edge of the blades - they have a different profile all the way down the blades.
50 psi is maybe what most trucks run but on a balls to the wall truck with no compromises, s400's commonly see 55-60 psi and double that almost in a twin setup, no?