Aftermarket IC pipe, manifolds, up pipes, even an aftermarket intercooler? I see lots of guys have it done..but at what point in your build do you stop and say its time for this stuff..? At what point is it absolutely necessary?
at what point did you add
- Thread starter NinjaMax
- Start date
I haven't seen enough proof of gains for manifolds/up pipes and aftermarket intercoolers for the price. I think better things could be bought for the money unless you're pushing big numbers. My truck has 3" IC pipes, kodiak manifolds/up pipes and stock ic
As soon as I have the extra cash I buy something new 
Intake, exhaust, lift pump, trans & tunes are first as soon as I pick up a truck. From there I keep adding until I'm happy. Which I'm never happy so I keep going :roflmao:
Intake, exhaust, lift pump, trans & tunes are first as soon as I pick up a truck. From there I keep adding until I'm happy. Which I'm never happy so I keep going :roflmao:Hondarider (Brian) made 832whp on stock manifolds....sooo, after that, maybe... I'm not positive, but I think he's got an upgraded intercooler, but as far as when it's "needed" judge for yourself, lots of guys run impressive numbers on stock manifolds...I would say a full egr delete with 3"cold side and down pipe help a tuned truck pretty well, in power and egt's, and help achieve the most potential per dollar spent.
Consider that for the cost of an:
Intercooler- $1000
Manifolds and uppipes- $1200
Name brand sealed intake- 500
Is $2700, you can get allot for $2700 that would generate more to the goal of power gains than the parts listed above...
The stock intake can support enough airflow for 550+ with a lil tweaking! and a twin set up uses the atmospheric turbo's filter as the intake system's filter, so if you plan to twin turbo your truck, don't waste your money on a fancy intake now...
First things first....hooking up
A Built trans, while costs more than $2700, is the first thing anyone looking to make formidable power should buy/do, absolutely hands down, and since "all" the stock parts can make enough power to totally toast a trans in an afternoon, this is a good first step to "having" power, along with a pump rub kit for the transfer case, cuz having a really cool super powerful truck with a bad t-case and trashed transmission isn't even as cool as it sounds, ask me how I know...
Built trans efi live tuning would naturally be the follow up step, once capable of holding such power. Along and incorporated with the new tuning a full egr delete is a good mod too, with cold side tube is a hot rod favorite, and one piece 3" y-bridge is definitely one of my "must have" items for anyone looking to maximize efficiency and extract every bit of air they can. Between those two, that's about the only mods I consider to be "needed" in the charge air system until you start pushing well into 650 range and past 700whp, imho
I'd say the intercooler should probably be replaced when you start pushing anything above 45psi, for one, it wasn't designed to facilitate that kind of air flow and be efficient, and two, I've heard of them popping around 50psi of boost, about this point the stock 2pc y-bridge becomes a factor too, some guys have better luck than others with stock parts, but I blew my Y-bridge out around 36-40psi @ about 530-550whp, so it's kinda a crapshoot around 600hp if you ask me, luck of the draw, also age starts to play a role in when it's "needed/time" to replace the intercooler as they can get a hole worn into them, the fins break down, LBZ and the newer stuff uses clamped on plastic end tanks, so those fail too sometimes, but seem to last into the 600hp range without issues, for the most part
And then when you're ready for more, you can add a twin over the stock charger or go with a bigger single then add injectors and a dual fueler, or modified CP3, when you upgrade the turbo or amount of air being pushed through the stock charger, that is when you "need" to upgrade the hot side boost tube....then you pray you have good tuning and enough restraint to make everything last...till you get your engine build parts
Getting back to hooking up
Your rear end will eventually take a crap, so be ready to upgrade that around 600whp, with built trans efi live tuning your rear end will probably need traction bars of some capacity too
The front end is a myriad of weak parts, so they will need to be addressed at some point as well, cause what is the point of having the ability for speed with out controlling it...
I am a advocate for the BTDieselworks lock up box and believe it helps the transmission in extracting every ounce of energy as quickly as possible
A "keyed/welded" water pump, for safety at this point
Eventually a full build will be ensuing...
Then, then when your built engine and badd ass, you've got everything else and you're just bored, then you'll "need" a set of manifolds and uppipes, but not before...:angel:
However, I've done all of that and more to my "stock truck" as my engine is still the factory build that's just now at 600+whp, so do what you want when you want, it's your money...
And I say that in all seriousness...really, do with it what you see fit, what makes you happy, it's yours and not one of us here knows what's more important to you than you
Consider that for the cost of an:
Intercooler- $1000
Manifolds and uppipes- $1200
Name brand sealed intake- 500
Is $2700, you can get allot for $2700 that would generate more to the goal of power gains than the parts listed above...
The stock intake can support enough airflow for 550+ with a lil tweaking! and a twin set up uses the atmospheric turbo's filter as the intake system's filter, so if you plan to twin turbo your truck, don't waste your money on a fancy intake now...
First things first....hooking up
A Built trans, while costs more than $2700, is the first thing anyone looking to make formidable power should buy/do, absolutely hands down, and since "all" the stock parts can make enough power to totally toast a trans in an afternoon, this is a good first step to "having" power, along with a pump rub kit for the transfer case, cuz having a really cool super powerful truck with a bad t-case and trashed transmission isn't even as cool as it sounds, ask me how I know...
Built trans efi live tuning would naturally be the follow up step, once capable of holding such power. Along and incorporated with the new tuning a full egr delete is a good mod too, with cold side tube is a hot rod favorite, and one piece 3" y-bridge is definitely one of my "must have" items for anyone looking to maximize efficiency and extract every bit of air they can. Between those two, that's about the only mods I consider to be "needed" in the charge air system until you start pushing well into 650 range and past 700whp, imho
I'd say the intercooler should probably be replaced when you start pushing anything above 45psi, for one, it wasn't designed to facilitate that kind of air flow and be efficient, and two, I've heard of them popping around 50psi of boost, about this point the stock 2pc y-bridge becomes a factor too, some guys have better luck than others with stock parts, but I blew my Y-bridge out around 36-40psi @ about 530-550whp, so it's kinda a crapshoot around 600hp if you ask me, luck of the draw, also age starts to play a role in when it's "needed/time" to replace the intercooler as they can get a hole worn into them, the fins break down, LBZ and the newer stuff uses clamped on plastic end tanks, so those fail too sometimes, but seem to last into the 600hp range without issues, for the most part
And then when you're ready for more, you can add a twin over the stock charger or go with a bigger single then add injectors and a dual fueler, or modified CP3, when you upgrade the turbo or amount of air being pushed through the stock charger, that is when you "need" to upgrade the hot side boost tube....then you pray you have good tuning and enough restraint to make everything last...till you get your engine build parts
Getting back to hooking up
Your rear end will eventually take a crap, so be ready to upgrade that around 600whp, with built trans efi live tuning your rear end will probably need traction bars of some capacity too
The front end is a myriad of weak parts, so they will need to be addressed at some point as well, cause what is the point of having the ability for speed with out controlling it...
I am a advocate for the BTDieselworks lock up box and believe it helps the transmission in extracting every ounce of energy as quickly as possible
A "keyed/welded" water pump, for safety at this point
Eventually a full build will be ensuing...
Then, then when your built engine and badd ass, you've got everything else and you're just bored, then you'll "need" a set of manifolds and uppipes, but not before...:angel:
However, I've done all of that and more to my "stock truck" as my engine is still the factory build that's just now at 600+whp, so do what you want when you want, it's your money...
And I say that in all seriousness...really, do with it what you see fit, what makes you happy, it's yours and not one of us here knows what's more important to you than you
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You sir, might be the only one who will read that monstrosity :spit:
So you are very welcome:hello:
Sorry guys, that post started as a two liner
If you want an intercooler with 3 in piping and can weld aluminum, you can do everything for about 300 bucks. But you have to fabricate some brackets and the piping.
You sir, might be the only one who will read that monstrosity :spit:
So you are very welcome:hello:
Sorry guys, that post started as a two liner
Good info! That's what I was wondering..so I'm at that point right now...475/stock, built trans, studded, some pretty nasty tuning, traction bars....all my manifolds, up pipe etc is all stock..so it'll be the logical move to invest in a intercooler? Before I go back to internals at all?
I don't see a lift pump in that list?
That would be my next move if you don't have one already. Also, I ran new larger fuel lines front to back and removed the factory lines then I modified my fuel pickup in the tank. I deffintitely saw an improvement in my rail pressure after all that.
Also get an LML drivers side manifold, they are cheap and effective...
There is ZERO reason to upgrade your intercooler unless you are pushing over 55 psi of boost...
Well, if you're this far into it and still have the stock mani's and whatnot, I can see the question eating away at ya, what next...
And it's a good one, really, I don't think manifolds will be "worth" the money, performance wise at your current power levels, I don't think not even longevity wise do they really help, they're kinda a show piece for a truck that makes less than 1000whp, no joke
If you don't have upgraded IC plumbing yet, I would definitely look into that, you would benefit from moving a greater volume now. So you've got enough power to cause plenty of internal damage, at this point it's less about power gains and more about efficiency, heat/egt management.
But I didn't notice you say anything about fuel upgrades, are they in your sig, I didn't look, I guess I should, at this point I think you're going to get the most from your money upgrading your fuel delivery system ie injectors and CP3. Here's where things get crazy right, better economy, more power "safer" tuning and hello, yes, even lower egt's can be had when properly putting together a fuel system for your truck and utilizing good tuning
Honestly, honestly, honestly man, the intercooler isn't a huge problem although the stock intercooler is not all that great either. I wanted one so I got it, I chose a much different strategy and route than most everyone else, I'm going for power last, I built my entire truck first, now it's ready, when I do have a performance build completed the truck will be ready for it, I won't have to "find" weak points, as hopefully most will have already been addressed. That was my plan from the beginning and with some minor tweaking due to guidance from members and what I've learned so far from my time here, this plan has worked for me pretty well so far, but no road is without bumps...
Oh
F yeah man, get an aftermarket intercooler
I would've changed it out before 50psi, just to be safe, but that's me....I'm not a fan of "finding" breaking points
BD
Mishimoto
Banks
That's my top 3 choice list in order...and at that boost level, hells ya, I'd expect a pretty nice difference in several areas with an upgraded intercooler and IC hot/cold pipe, I still wouldn't spend the money on manifolds, yet, but if ya just gotta have a set I'd get HSP's
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I would do up pipes but stick with stock manifolds. I believe you would see more benefit out of bigger uppipe then manifolds.
Haha ya..thanks for the info!! That's what I'm looking for..I just read a lot about guys getting those upgrades very early in a build, some don't till further into it..some don't at all. Its hard to find real numbers on any of it..aside from the ic. But besides that are there any real life comparisons on a truck with aftermarket manifolds and up pipes vs stock flow? (Stock or aftermarket charger)
I didn't see any dyno gains from up-pipes and drivers side manifold. The few that have tested it back to back and said they do make more power were drag racers, I think. I also didn't see any peak EGT reduction with a banks I/c, but it probably took longer to get to peak. This was all on a 600rwhp LLY.
Is that typical? EGT's are comparable to stock on a aftermarket IC? Is the real benefit in upgrading the IC because it can handle more boost ? Or for egt's/flow?
I think one of the biggest reasons guys don't see any real gains with upgraded manifolds is that they still use the same sized collector, I mean, the gaskets are "stock" so, really you're not increasing the flow potential of the piece, per se, more so just the flow dynamics inside the manifold are more efficient, which in a NA engine would be a great benefit, for boosted applications like ours, not so much, cuz the gaseous exhaust is "charged" under boosted conditions being built up and forced through the manifolds to the charger...so the need for "premium and ultimate" exhaust gas efficiency or scavenging is not that dramatic or necessary.
Just a thought...
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I believe the "real benefit" comes with the understanding that everything works as a whole, in the end, everything together makes up for the accumulative total.
If you're looking for bang for the buck mods, the intercooler isn't it. If you're looking to build something that you want to build to be badd, stand the test of time, something that doesn't leave you second guessing "what's gonna happen next" and is just as good or better than the factory, and is ready for what ever you plan next....then IMHO, you have to address damn near every part, and if that's what you want, then the intercooler, manifolds and uppipes and all the intercooler piping, an upgraded trans cooler and a few other key parts should all be in your sights...