altered stock pull truck

[Schwinn68]

I'm wanting to campaign a truck in our ISP altered stock 6500 lb class. It's a mixed class of gas and diesel trucks. It's very competitive and seems to be growing in numbers every year. It's also the step up from stock diesel as the other option is 3.0 open driveline.

Here's my dilema.

I've got some options on how to build the truck.

Option #1
buy a wrecked dmax truck and put all the parts from my current truck onto this one. I would end up driving a stockish truck again everyday but wouldn't have a ton of money upgrading the second truck.

Option #2
I've been looking around on racing junk and there are a few trucks that are set up as "rolling" gassers. No motors but the chassis is already set up and would work for the class. I could either drop in a big block chevy and go pulling for cheap or try swapping in a dmax and hope I get it running in a year. The trucks I was looking at all had rockwell rears and dana 60 fronts.

The only problem with converting these trucks to dmax is they either have sm465 and 205 combo or reverser drop box. The reverser is not allowed in this class and the 4 speed doesn't bolt up to the dmax. To use the allison would mean changing the front axle as the pinion is on the wrong side.

Option #3
buy a cheap chevy 4x4 gasser. I would start slow, working on chassis set up and eventually end up with the same dilema as option 2.

I'm leaning towards option 2 as these trucks are selling for less than it would cost me to build them myself. I just can't believe I would have a gasser pull truck and not a dmax. The class is 2.8 and horsepower is not as critical as set up. At 6500 lbs, too much horsepower will just blow the tires off.

I know I'm not the only one who has faced this choice and would appreciate and input or advice on this. I want to hear some pros and cons of what I'm looking at doing. I'm trying to do this on a modest budget and its easier for me to spend a little money repeatedly over a long period than a bunch all at once although I will have a small chunk to invest to get this started. I'm not looking to have a dominant truck right off the bat, I just want to pull and I'm looking at this like an investment of my time and resources.

thanks
Ben

 

[moss]

i think option one. maybe option 4, a cheaper fixer uper duramax.

oh, and its 6500lbs!! looking forward to competing with you in the future!!:thumb:

 

[SmokeShow]

Yeah, how much do you have to spend to get started? You can get an older dmax for pretty dang cheap it seems to me. Certainly less than $10k and if it's broken and need fixed (ie lb7 needing injectors or blown head gaskets or something), closer to $5k. That's about as cheap as you can start off with a dmax I'd think.


I've gone option #2 personally. I bought my 83 as a rolling chassis ex-gasser pulling truck. As you said, none of that drivetrain is useful when swapping in a dmax. I bought a wrecked 06 truck and sold the 2wd allison out of it in favor of a zf6. You can also mount up an nv4500 just as well. It just so happened I found the zf6 first and cheaper. Then lucked into a triple disk shortly afterwards. There are a few options on the wiring. It's really not that involved I don't think. Trickiest part may be putting the driver's drop front axle under the truck. If you know how to fab parts and setup a proper steering setup, it shouldn't be that hard to do a leaf spring setup. As long as you can hang weight, they can be made to hook without bouncing. ANd you can even get pretty tricky with loading and get some solid hookup out them if you snoop around some old school guys and how they have their fronts AND hitches setup.


I went the route I did because I'll never be able to afford a really competitive truck so I chose to build something different that I could enjoy even without winning. ANd at the time, you couldn't buy an lbz truck for what I had into everything, so it was a cheap route to get into the best version of dmax. :thumb: Sadly, I'm on a VERY limited budget and an equally limited fabricating skill set. If I knew how to weld myself, it'd be done. AS it is, I've got piles and piles of parts. I'm getting a welder after christmas though and will learn to weld. I'm confident I can do all the welding I need to with a lower end MIG welder so that's what I'll get.


I'm also just doing a body swap rather than stuffing the dmax into the old chassis. The newer chassis is stouter, and already setup for all of the better/newer driveline. So the fabbing I need to do involves body mounts rather than cross members, engine mounts, etc. Trouble is my chassis is a 2wd so I've got to convert to 4wd. I currently have parts to make it an IFS or SFA. I just haven't decided which one I want yet. :rofl: Depends on which day you ask me. :roflmao: I lean IFS for ride quality if/when I get out of pulling and want a good riding streetable truck and I'm much more familiar with setting one up for pulling. I lean sfa for seeming like a better "fit" for the old square body, supposedly stouter, a better setup if I ever go big driveline, have locker and gears, etc. Draw back on IFS is starts to be limited on strength at the upper end of 2.6 power range and I'm probably going to have to buy a lift kit for it cause I'm not hacking any more on the body to stuff the 35" tires under it. Draw backs to the sfa is possible harsher ride on street, unknown territory out the gate on setup for pulling, nervous about setting up the susp. geometry and steering correctly. Luckily there are bolt in kits for this. :thumb:



In a nutshell, I'd start out looking for a really cheap duramax to put your parts on and go. Option 2, dmax swap on a rolling chassis pull truck. Its not an option to pull a gasser Although 6200# hotstock/stock II was my passion before diesels when I first started driving and I still enjoy them but they aren't cheap either. Back then they had $15-20K engines in them so no telling what they are now 10-15yrs later .

Ok, that's all I've got.

 

[SmokeShow]

also something to consider if going the route of diesel is a 2.8 turbo with enough fuel is getting hairy on stock rods if you go for max power.

And you'll likely be on good sticky tracks in IL if I'm guessing so they should hold a fair amount of power I'd imagine. So power likely won't be turned down by anyone. I know I sure wouldn't! I'd tune my setup to hook with my power rather than turn my power down to hook with my setup. F that!

Mo powa is mo betta I says. :happy2:

 

[Schwinn68]

Mitch
I was hoping you would weigh in on this. I'm keeping my eye out for a cheap duramax to put my parts on but the majority of my parts are LLY specific. another concern is getting into a project and never getting it finished. Life is so unpredictable and with my daughter being born this year I don't want to get in over my head.

I'm leaning hard towards getting a rolling chassis and putting in a big block so I can just get out on the track this year. I can get a duramax motor and slowly work on getting it built and swap it into the chassis in the future.

 

[SmokeShow]

That's true. How much is a reasonably competitive big block in that class? In my mind, it seems this could be a 1,000 hp class if they're pushing the limits of a custom 2.8 charger, not just an A5K. Or is it more tame than that eighths diesels there?

Even still, it's reasonable parts list for healthy big block, eh?

 

[Schwinn68]

much tamer class. 800 horse trucks. give or take. With the relatively light weight, chassis set up is much more important than raw horsepower. We have a hyper 3.0 open driveline class where they have outrageous horsepower numbers. Like you I'm not looking to win the class, I just want something to get out on the track with.

 

[SmokeShow]

Aluminum heads allowed or cast only class? Cubic inch limit? Carb limit?

What are the driveline limitations?

 

[Schwinn68]

Aluminum heads allowed or cast only class? Cubic inch limit? Carb limit?

What are the driveline limitations?

cast heads only, 480+5 cubic inch, no carb limit. driveline is open rear solid suspension.

I found about 4 trucks on racing junk that would do great in this class. All I need is a 600-700 horse big block. lol

 

[arneson]

I have the perfect motor for u. Well kinda. Its a 540 roller, runs about 785hp, to bad its to many cubes, pullin it out of my 64 chevy c10 and swapin a duramax in, which will end up being my dedicated puller at some point. I'd look for a dmax personally, unless u have a lot of trucks in the area around u. Not a lot here anymore, seems diesels have takin over. Finding a chassis kinda set up and then swapin a dmax would be perfect. Always hard to finish projects with kids on the way, I'm finding that out, and my 64 hasn't been touched in a year since my 2 daughters. Lol

 

[Schwinn68]

that motor would work in the 6200 lb super street class. How much am I looking to spend on a 454 chevy to get it to make 600 horse and be somewhat reliable? No street time and race gas. Maybe I'm naive but it seems like it can be done for a fraction of what a duramax costs to build

 

[FarmDiesel22]

Open driveline in altered so you can run rockwell in rear, d60 up front, and drop box and reverser????

 

[bubba2400]

480 limit with aftermarket cast heads and 900-1k range is not out of the question. We have a truck running up here with 480ci factory heads, 4150 carb and small headers pushing 900. Our chassis are somewhat limited also just like your class and he won every hook this year. Put your goals at around 775-800 with a big block and you will be very competitive.

You could have bought my old motor last year for 4K. It made 675hp with too small of a carb.

Call up T&T racing engines in Gurnee and ask for Tom Jr. He can make that power pretty easy and probably in the 6-7 thousand range roughly. Good luck!!

 

[Schwinn68]

Open driveline in altered so you can run rockwell in rear, d60 up front, and drop box and reverser????

not exactly. I talked with Moss tonight and here's what I understand. one ton or smaller in the front. any automotive rearend. one ton or smaller trans and transfer case. suspension is solid blocked but not welded solid.

 

[Schwinn68]

480 limit with aftermarket cast heads and 900-1k range is not out of the question. We have a truck running up here with 480ci factory heads, 4150 carb and small headers pushing 900. Our chassis are somewhat limited also just like your class and he won every hook this year. Put your goals at around 775-800 with a big block and you will be very competitive.

You could have bought my old motor last year for 4K. It made 675hp with too small of a carb.

Call up T&T racing engines in Gurnee and ask for Tom Jr. He can make that power pretty easy and probably in the 6-7 thousand range roughly. Good luck!!

that sounds about how the top gas trucks in this class run. I think the best part is that gas and diesel trucks go head to head in this class. The crowd loves it and it really makes for some great competition. I just want to have fun and not worry about breaking my daily driver. Do you know any other good sites that the gasser pullers are on or any other places besides racing junk to find good used parts and complete roller chassis?

 

[bubba2400]

Racing Junk is the best for chassis. Or talk with other guys in the club. Shoot me a PM with what you are looking for exactly and I will see what I can come up with. My rolling chassis in my signature went for 5K last fall just to give you an idea.

 

[SmokeShow]

My 83 was a little less than that but no big rear. Just d60/14bff/4spd/205.

Still need to sell all that. Although I consider keeping it and the cut down frame for another use some day. Just never know. Them are good parts to use for a LOT of applications.

 

[moss]

word on the street one of the better running gassers was just barely in the 4 digit range. seems like there was only 2 good consinent gassers and 3 diesels. there were others that ran pretty good too. i do expect to have more better running trucks this coming year.

another thing to consider is that this is only 6500lbs. its a 27% hitch rule, so you are putting power down, just not like 8000lbs. makes me wonder how much longer a stock dmax can handle at a lighter weight

 

[bubba2400]

Yeah, 6500lbs and 27% hitch will make those trucks hook pretty good even without the front weight.

 

[moss]

Yeah, 6500lbs and 27% hitch will make those trucks hook pretty good even without the front weight.

yes i agree, and have under estimated that too