How is that? You are good at what you do and know it or you dont.
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Allison with no defueling
- Thread starter mike diesel
- Start date
How is that? You are good at what you do and know it or you dont.
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
I stock truck from
GM shifts extremely fast and awesome.... I feel those working very hard to "fix" defuel are going backwards in a sense because to " fix" the defuel they first had to mess it up some how. I run stock defuel in all of my tuning, and they shift perfect. Some say "that will shift too slow", but our track times with Allison's say different. Brad at Calvin's has worked with me quite a bit in this aspect and we have come to the conclusion that factory defuel is perfect.... If you have large defuels, it isn't because a tuner is trying to "save your trans"....it's simply because it was messed up somehow and not fixed.
All in all, if it doesn't get messed up in the first place, then it doesn't have to be fixed... I run nearly stock torque tables as well, I still get full cubes where I want it
GM shifts extremely fast and awesome.... I feel those working very hard to "fix" defuel are going backwards in a sense because to " fix" the defuel they first had to mess it up some how. I run stock defuel in all of my tuning, and they shift perfect. Some say "that will shift too slow", but our track times with Allison's say different. Brad at Calvin's has worked with me quite a bit in this aspect and we have come to the conclusion that factory defuel is perfect.... If you have large defuels, it isn't because a tuner is trying to "save your trans"....it's simply because it was messed up somehow and not fixed.
All in all, if it doesn't get messed up in the first place, then it doesn't have to be fixed... I run nearly stock torque tables as well, I still get full cubes where I want it
I tried everything in the way of stock unmolested TCMs, the best tuners ECM/TCM combinations and finally landed on my current setup a hacked up unprofessional non expert TCM tune that took me from 12.1 to 11.8 in one pass... Well maybe 2.
I tried everything in the way of stock unmolested TCMs, the best tuners ECM/TCM combinations and finally landed on my current setup a hacked up unprofessional non expert TCM tune that took me from 12.1 to 11.8 in one pass... Well maybe 2.
I think getting the converter to lock properly did that for you.
I stock truck from
GM shifts extremely fast and awesome.... I feel those working very hard to "fix" defuel are going backwards in a sense because to " fix" the defuel they first had to mess it up some how. I run stock defuel in all of my tuning, and they shift perfect. Some say "that will shift too slow", but our track times with Allison's say different. Brad at Calvin's has worked with me quite a bit in this aspect and we have come to the conclusion that factory defuel is perfect.... If you have large defuels, it isn't because a tuner is trying to "save your trans"....it's simply because it was messed up somehow and not fixed.
All in all, if it doesn't get messed up in the first place, then it doesn't have to be fixed... I run nearly stock torque tables as well, I still get full cubes where I want it
I tried this but at part throttle it still defuels to much ive tried everything we've talked about and the tune you sent still cant get it right at part throttle now wot I /we had it pretty damn good but towards the end of the season I got a couple funny shifts again so
I stock truck from
GM shifts extremely fast and awesome.... I feel those working very hard to "fix" defuel are going backwards in a sense because to " fix" the defuel they first had to mess it up some how. I run stock defuel in all of my tuning, and they shift perfect. Some say "that will shift too slow", but our track times with Allison's say different. Brad at Calvin's has worked with me quite a bit in this aspect and we have come to the conclusion that factory defuel is perfect.... If you have large defuels, it isn't because a tuner is trying to "save your trans"....it's simply because it was messed up somehow and not fixed.
All in all, if it doesn't get messed up in the first place, then it doesn't have to be fixed... I run nearly stock torque tables as well, I still get full cubes where I want it
While we are on this subject. Could you take the time to explain how "bind ups" can occur from tuning. More specifically, How poor tuning can create issues for hard parts such as planetaries, hubs, clutch packs etc..
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Load in a bone stock tune... Then just up your uS on the big end and see at what point it starts shifting bad.
im going to once it has a engine again
but we did that before and I still had issues refreshed the trans and all was great even on part throttle now that I think about for couple weeks then it seemed to go back to the same old thing ill do more tinkering once it runs again
You are 100% correct that was what was obtained but it required some butchering
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I did not have good luck with no defuel, tourched my c4 clutch packs around 600hp with a stage 4 kit
I stock truck from
GM shifts extremely fast and awesome.... I feel those working very hard to "fix" defuel are going backwards in a sense because to " fix" the defuel they first had to mess it up some how. I run stock defuel in all of my tuning, and they shift perfect. Some say "that will shift too slow", but our track times with Allison's say different. Brad at Calvin's has worked with me quite a bit in this aspect and we have come to the conclusion that factory defuel is perfect.... If you have large defuels, it isn't because a tuner is trying to "save your trans"....it's simply because it was messed up somehow and not fixed.
All in all, if it doesn't get messed up in the first place, then it doesn't have to be fixed... I run nearly stock torque tables as well, I still get full cubes where I want it
I can get them to work both ways, I leave the option up to my customers to choose what they want or don't want. Just because you either can't make a setup work one way or another does not make it wrong for those who can or wish to make it work any way different than you think is the best way. Saying something is messed up just because you can't understand how it works that way is just plain ignorant.
It's called custom tuning for a reason.....:thumb:
What I was saying is "messed up" is a harsh shift defuel. I wasn't saying fixing the harsh defuel is messed up. I was saying that if a harsh defuel has occurred from stock... That something got messed up. It's not that I "can't"...or i don't understand...trust me, tuning lb7 and LLYs are a lot easier to understand than getting a LML to dpf delete in code :thumb: I think simply doing it the other method is simpler and more realistic for those coming into tuning. Teaching the efi classes brought this out in the open and have a positive response.
Come on now bobo, you know better than that
Tuning LLY's and LB7's are very easy to understand, yet some guys are completely against tuning off the defuel because bad things happen. Well I don't believe bad things happen when the defuel is shut off....I think bad things happen when there is no defuel and people don't tune correctly for it. I've been able to eliminate defuel on LB7,LLY,LBZ, and LMM. I'm currently working on it for the LML.....but we don't have TCM flash capabilities yet so I'm limited on R&D with that as of now. As far as I can tell, the defuel issues people have are directly related either to poor trans builds or poor tuning. Even with a poor build, you can use tuning with defuel on or off to better the shift quality of an Allison.
I'm not here saying one way is better than another, but I do think there is a place where defuel is not needed and a place where it is. It all comes down to customer preference, driving style, vehicle build, and of course a high level of understanding on how to make things work for the clown behind the keyboard sure don't hurt anything either.
The allison expects x torque at x throttle input from the factory. The allison TCm is purely load based vs throttle vs rpm. The load is translated into a calculated torque, off the top of my head i think it limits around 776. The thresholds for x throttle input at x rpm can be out around 30% from the factory to calc the proper torque. Once this gets thrown off by mostly taking the torque tables and upping them heavily, the allison does not have time to properly calculate and correct the shift. If all 3 conditions are met and are "happy" then it will make a great shift. The same effect can be done with pulsewidth as the uS is just a map directed by mm3/FRP... so when the torque calls to limit for a shift defuel, it is actually calling to lower pulse. It is SO SO SO easy to understand how this works with simple datalogs. I mean, kid easy
.... Look at what the uS drops to, where the mm3 is, and where the calc torque is... Adjust 1 paremeter at a time until it gets happy.... Messing with all of them at once and throwing them all out of whack from maxing out in the beginning can have a newbie chasing their tail! I suggest, as close to stock torque tables as you can without limiting yourself on achieving full cubes... if this means 79.9mm3 or 120mm3, take your pick! The just use the pulse to get it to drive how you want... TBIq (Throttle base injection quantity) can also be used, but i honest drop TBIQ in the bottom end of the tune around 15% to get a more "comfortable" throttle... and that is it besides having the big end of TBIQ hit him desired mm3 for desired uS.
Throwing all of these things out of whack (using term lightly) is not the best method... in my opinion, know your end goal, and get the truck there as simply as possible. Otherwise, the allison is constantly trying to learn things that are "out of range" and sometimes can never be properly corrected!
:thumb:
I tried everything in the way of stock unmolested TCMs, the best tuners ECM/TCM combinations and finally landed on my current setup a hacked up unprofessional non expert TCM tune that took me from 12.1 to 11.8 in one pass... Well maybe 2.
That same tuning as well as the tuning from my previous tuner killed my c2s and c3s as well as started to twist the hub. neither of them could smooth out my 3-4 shift.
Put steve in the hot seat after Mike refreashed my trans and its never shifted so smooth and precise.
That same tuning as well as the tuning from my previous tuner killed my c2s and c3s as well as started to twist the hub. neither of them could smooth out my 3-4 shift.
Put steve in the hot seat after Mike refreashed my trans and its never shifted so smooth and precise.
I rode in one steve tuned a while back, it shifted really nice!