[email protected]

[duratothemax]

Not sure if it would be wise to post my editorials on CompD; I'm already less popular than Obama over there.

At least the CSI truck could stage in an orderly fashion, but I got to say that while moderate smoke is not a problem, huge amounts aren't going to be allowed indefinitely at sanctioned drag events. If there was no wind, or if it were blowing the other way, it raises the question of safety and track operations. That is enough smoke to blind the other lane, blind mid track lights for the next pass, hide the scoreboards, hide whether the car has left the track, oil the track, and delay the next pass.

There are already tracks that do not like diesels running at them. It will just take one accident caused by poor visibility to get national restrictions on diesel racing. I personally do not mind smoke, and even enjoy it at sled-pulls. But what diesel racers think has little if any bearing on what track owners or insurers think. It is always best to be pro-active rather than trying to get a ban lifted.

This is an extremely unpopular opinion, but I think more and more diesel racers are starting to get nervous about the situation. We either police ourselves, or fight against a ban. And as we know, most the time "bans" are for life.

I agree completely Pat. All valid points...

ben

 

[McRat]

Something else to consider. The way they tell if a racer had a problem and oiled or watered down the track is by the smoke coming from their car.

My guess is this is what will cause a ban on diesels. A 9 second or quicker car will be right behind a diesel. The diesel will leak coolant on the track between the 1/8th and 1000'. It will not be spotted, the car following will crash. They will investigate and find it was the diesel (leak continues in front of the crash), and the exhaust smoke obscured the leak smoke.

That is a very possible scenario today. There is a problem with coolant already, the smoke is thick enough to hide it. It might have already happened even, but the track did not investigate.

 

[JoshH]

Not sure if it would be wise to post my editorials on CompD; I'm already less popular than Obama over there.

At least the CSI truck could stage in an orderly fashion, but I got to say that while moderate smoke is not a problem, huge amounts aren't going to be allowed indefinitely at sanctioned drag events. If there was no wind, or if it were blowing the other way, it raises the question of safety and track operations. That is enough smoke to blind the other lane, blind mid track lights for the next pass, hide the scoreboards, hide whether the car has left the track, oil the track, and delay the next pass.

There are already tracks that do not like diesels running at them. It will just take one accident caused by poor visibility to get national restrictions on diesel racing. I personally do not mind smoke, and even enjoy it at sled-pulls. But what diesel racers think has little if any bearing on what track owners or insurers think. It is always best to be pro-active rather than trying to get a ban lifted.

This is an extremely unpopular opinion, but I think more and more diesel racers are starting to get nervous about the situation. We either police ourselves, or fight against a ban. And as we know, most the time "bans" are for life.

I was at an all diesel event a few weeks ago, and on more than one occasion I had to wait for smoke to clear before the track officials could see if the track was clear of the racers ahead of me. The bad thing is the trucks were running 13s, 14s, and 15s or sometimes slower.

 

[McRat]

I was at an all diesel event a few weeks ago, and on more than one occasion I had to wait for smoke to clear before the track officials could see if the track was clear of the racers ahead of me. The bad thing is the trucks were running 13s, 14s, and 15s or sometimes slower.

And in there lies the problem. There are very few "max effort" diesel racers out there. Perhaps 100 total, and 50 active. Not a big problem yet.

But number of slower trucks is far, far, higher, and this is most likely where the Straw That Broke The Camel's Back will arrive from. Many want to emulate the Max Effort trucks, and actually believe that smoke is good for the future of the sport. Not that they are entirely wrong; many diesel fans want to see heavy smoke. But there are not enough fans to make a track owner tolerate a dangerous situation, especially after the first incident happens. Smoke-free is not a realistic goal, but if you can't see the track or the racers, then it becomes an issue to consider.

I don't think there is an easy solution to it though. The only ones who can head this problem off are us, and we would have to have the will to change. Unless we make heavy smoke something to be scorned in the diesel drag racing community, we are simply an accident waiting to happen.

Hopefully the situation will fix itself by Common Rail technology overshadowing the mechanical diesels, and the smoke will be reduced simply because it will be faster not to smoke heavy, and the entry level racers will try and mimic the big dogs.

 

[2500HeavyDuty]

I was at an all diesel event a few weeks ago, and on more than one occasion I had to wait for smoke to clear before the track officials could see if the track was clear of the racers ahead of me. The bad thing is the trucks were running 13s, 14s, and 15s or sometimes slower.

yeah there were alot of trucks like that

 

[McRat]

Another thought. Perhaps even heavy smoke could be dealt with to make it safer. Experiments with side exhaust might make it so you can see the truck and the track as it goes down the strip, and reduce the amount of oily smoke that settles down in the "groove" of the track. Not sure if it would work. It helped with our truck.

 

[Subman]

If you guys want to read the other side of the story go to CompD and read the thread, 12 VALVES ARE DINOSAURS BANKS THREAD DERAIL. it's a spin off of a thread started by showing what the Banks rail had done and quickly jumped on by the Banks haters. I chimed in using my best bedside mannor and got'em all riled up. I never did discuss the safety issue, but just my feeling on why common rails are the future. Very strong feelings over there. I did use your quote Pat. Loved it.

 

[McRat]

Ken, we do permit cross-linking to other websites here (yeah, bizarre, eh? ) so you are allowed to post direct links to items of interest.

The only thing we restrict is direct advertising in links unless it's a board supporter.

 

[Bako_Dmax]

Very good points, I never really thought about if a truck oiled the track the officials might not spot it due to all the smoke.

That is scary!

 

[1lowdiesel]

i agree with pats outlook on this. i too like smoke, but there is a time and a place.

there are too many people out there that will buy a programmer just to get smoke. every day i get the question which programmer will give me the most smoke and it sucks to know that they will be driving around their town just smoking out anyone they can.

just last week i got pulled over in my benz and got a ticket for excessive smoke. i even told her it's good veggie smoke but she wasn't having it. so it's not long before they really start cracking down even with the smallest puff.

 

[JoshH]

If you guys want to read the other side of the story go to CompD and read the thread, 12 VALVES ARE DINOSAURS BANKS THREAD DERAIL. it's a spin off of a thread started by showing what the Banks rail had done and quickly jumped on by the Banks haters. I chimed in using my best bedside mannor and got'em all riled up. I never did discuss the safety issue, but just my feeling on why common rails are the future. Very strong feelings over there. I did use your quote Pat. Loved it.

I found the thread last night and read it. You really got those Dodge boys all riled up... :rofl:

 

[LB7Diesel]

I thought Black Smoke wasn't good for power?

 

[McRat]

Everything being equal, a gray haze will be where max power hits.

But if you are spraying liquid fuel on the cylinder walls or piston because the droplet size is large, that fuel burns VERY slow and chugs out huge amounts of white or black smoke. Watch a max effort 12v get warmed up. First, white smoke. Then as they get some heat in the engine, then it changes to coal black.

This might be why their pistons are surviving better than ours. The liquid fuel is actually cooling the piston at the expense of incomplete burn out the exhaust.

 

[hondarider552]

This might be why their pistons are surviving better than ours. The liquid fuel is actually cooling the piston at the expense of incomplete burn out the exhaust.

Never thought of it that way Pat, interesting point.

 

[McRat]

It's kind of frustrating, but the most efficient set-up will also be the hardest on the pistons. Fast, complete burn, generates higher pistons temps and exhaust valve temps. And more power. Jet engines ran into this. As they went up in power in the same size package, the demands on the metals went up. Older engines smoke black yet don't put out the same power as the newer engines do with far less smoke. But metallurgy had to improve before they could increase the power. Jet engines are to an extent similiar to us. Same fuel, lots of air, super-high compression, with problems burning the fuel fast enough.

Keep in mind that unburned fuel ABSORBS heat that is used for expanding the gases in the cylinder. To an extent, it puts out some of the fire. If they tried to clean it up, first they would make more HP, but would lose the engine in the process most likely.

Sodium filled inconel exhaust valves and bi-metal pistons are on my Christmas list, but Santa has been a prick for years now...

 

[Bako_Dmax]

Good info in this thread.

 

[McRat]

Something else to consider. 9.31 @ 148.8 is blazing fast, but his engine is roughly the same size as the Dmax, it's not 5.9. Without knowing his weight, it's hard to say whether Max'd Out is actually pushing the same or more power than him, yet without huge amounts of smoke. So perhaps there is not as much disparity between 12v's and Dmaxes as it would it appear at a distance.

 

[Subman]

Started another thread over on CompD using most of the comments on heavy smoke on the track voiced here. Some interesting comments,http://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=295030

 

[McRat]

I do enjoy posts by Timbo:

"I've been a spectator more than ANY of youse guys!!!! So I'ze an eggspert!" ::thumb:

"A Buddy Of Mine Runs NHRA With A Diesel, So Smoke Can't Ever Be A Problem!"

"Stuckey Rans A 6.02 In Bakersfield, So That Means Smoke Is Good Everywhere! So What If He Didn't Actually Smoke Much?"

Basically, Timbo races just like he thinks. He has someone else do it and he watches.

 

[JoshH]

Started another thread over on CompD using most of the comments on heavy smoke on the track voiced here. Some interesting comments,http://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=295030

Hey Ken, the link you posted goes to a page to reply to this thread. Here's the link: http://competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71365