So only OTR diesel is getting hit or is this Teir 4 in general? Sadly people in government are visual people, diesel smoke bad, gas no smoke okay, EV no pollution at all. The nail that sticks up the farthest get hammered down.
2027 more emissions....
- Thread starter Dozerboy
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I kind of like the hybrid technology that Edison motors in Canada is doing. If you haven’t seen or heard, I highly recommend checking it out. They also teamed up with DeBoss garage to implement this technology into the light duty pick ups.
I did a brief search and it appears that their approach is to have a small gas or diesel engine driving a generator, which generates the electricity to charge the batteries and run the electric motor(s) that actually drive the vehicle. If I'm correct and that's what they're doing, YES, that's how hybrids should have been since day 1, not these over complicated piles of garbage they're calling hybrids.
That's my understanding too. Same basic setup as a diesel locomotive. I think they have a battery bank in theirs though
The issue with using this strategy for vehicles is the efficiency. Too much losses from the ICE to generator then electric motor. A hybrid like this might actually net worse MPG then a typical straight ICE might deliver. Even if you tune the engine to run at a fixed RPM where it might be most efficient, it might be equal. But you now have the complexity without the benefits.
I don't think Edison motors was going for efficiency with their setup. But something that can be worked on in the field. Can run on only batteries for times when noise or pollution can be an issue and then limit or eliminate having to stop for charging. I like the idea but I don't think it is a viable option for a majority of the population.
The way the automotive industry designed the hybrids is logical from the perspective of maximizing MPG. The government is putting lots of pressure on them to improve it. So that is the system they use.
I think an add on electric motor that attaches to the engine like the alternator or AC compressor with a separate controller and battery bank would be a simpler option for us whom like to do our own repairs, maintenance or modifications. It should be able to improve MPG and be cheaper to build. Drawback is the limited power you can put on the belt while running in all electric mode. So it probably won't have that option unless they change the belt setup. Could also be used as an aftermarket option for improving existing vehicles.
I always wondered why manufacturers when making hybrids didn't use diesel. Something like the TDI in a hybrid would probably easily do 75 MPG average. VW lost major opportunity there
I have posited for years that what Edison is doing, but using a small diesel, was the way to go. Granted, GM and Ford's hybrid tech is pretty reliable. Thats the way to OEMs should have gone with every platform instead of losing their minds over full-on EVs. When the infrastructure and technology catches up with what EVs NEED to be, THEN move to that platform, but not before.
Pat started a thread back in 2016 with very similar discussion about making a hybrid
www.duramaxdiesels.com
Not sure if it's worth migrating this topic to that one or keeping it here
EV Powertrains.
Besides raising kids and trying adapt to my injuries, I've been playing with Electric Vehicle technology. A few years ago, I wanted to run an electric high boost supercharger on a Duramax. I was going to run a 50kW electric motor, 200lb Lithium battery, and a Ford Cobra supercharger off...
www.duramaxdiesels.com
Not sure if it's worth migrating this topic to that one or keeping it here
The way around the engine driving a generator being 'less efficient ' is make it a Plug in Hybrid. ~200 miles of battery range, can be plugged in and charged, but can also run forever if there's fuel in the tank. Something like that, with my wife's commute, would basically never burn fuel. But on a long trip, could go forever as long as the proper fuel for the ICE engine is available. And that's really a far simpler, straightforward design than the convoluted bs that is the 'hybrids' that we have.
The two topics are related .. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the absolutely batshit crazy emissions junk being pushed is to make ICE vehicles so expensive and annoying to own that people give up and go to sub-par, not ready for primetime EVs.Pat started a thread back in 2016 with very similar discussion about making a hybrid
EV Powertrains.
Besides raising kids and trying adapt to my injuries, I've been playing with Electric Vehicle technology. A few years ago, I wanted to run an electric high boost supercharger on a Duramax. I was going to run a 50kW electric motor, 200lb Lithium battery, and a Ford Cobra supercharger off...
Not sure if it's worth migrating this topic to that one or keeping it here
I guess one could do that with the posts pertaining to EVs and hybrids.....Pat started a thread back in 2016 with very similar discussion about making a hybrid
EV Powertrains.
Besides raising kids and trying adapt to my injuries, I've been playing with Electric Vehicle technology. A few years ago, I wanted to run an electric high boost supercharger on a Duramax. I was going to run a 50kW electric motor, 200lb Lithium battery, and a Ford Cobra supercharger off...
Not sure if it's worth migrating this topic to that one or keeping it here
Maybe change the thread title to reflect the blend... Because there is the very real possibility that the overlords are pushing this emissions agenda to push EVs, rather than to let things happen organically... Make ICE vehicles so demonic and PITA to own that the weak throw in the towel....
I personally feel the topics are related... The tofu farting faries seem to think EVs are an all around solution, but they aren't at this time... There are without question scenarios where they'd be great, but they are, without question, not a 100% replacement for ICE vehicles as things stand today.
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This guy put a generator in his Tesla
First test with a smaller gasoline unit
Source: https://youtu.be/hHhf223jGIE
He then installs a little diesel. But it's full of issues
Source: https://youtu.be/seHWJMKwOQQ
Source: https://youtu.be/5Qu-BDixGYY
I think it would be a lucrative business is someone can figure out a package that does basically the same thing with better reliability and way quieter. It would allow one to charge at home or work and then charge anytime if taking longer trips
First test with a smaller gasoline unit
He then installs a little diesel. But it's full of issues
I think it would be a lucrative business is someone can figure out a package that does basically the same thing with better reliability and way quieter. It would allow one to charge at home or work and then charge anytime if taking longer trips
The reason locomotives use a diesel engine to drive a generator then electric motors to run the train is because nothing creates more torque than an electric motor! It also has much more controllability without the need of a complicated transmission to drive all of this. Chevy did create the Bolt. It was an electric car that had a small 2 cylinder engine that would kick in with a generator to extend the range of the electric system. Not sure they are even produced these days.
With everything said my LMM will likely be my last diesel truck. In my opinion, today's new diesels just have too much emissions add-ons to go wrong, especially when pulling a load and putting the DPF thru numerous regens. Too many have clogged already in completely stock condition. I picked up my 08 LMM in 2009 and I have done enough mods to keep the reliability at it's peak. I keep my truck in pristine running shape, inside and out. At 215K I know my LMM will be going for quite a long time. It may even outlast me since I keep it back just for trips pulling my gooseneck or enclosed trailer. Dean
Yeah, the beauty of electric motors os that you can keep the same torque throughout the whole RPM range if you raise the voltage at the appropriate rate. Or you can keep the power (HP) the same which would have it's peak torque right off 0 RPMs. ICE's, even diesel doesn't come close to this ability without the complexity. Steam can get close but has a lot of other issues. In this respect, electric is king.
As for the Chevy Bolt. That one is all electric. You might be thinking of the Volt. That was/is a hybrid. But it didn't use a separate generator to turn on and recharge the batteries as you described. It is really no different then most every other hybrid. It had a motor attached in between the engine and transmission. It would have the ability to use electric only or engine with electric assist. When the battery runs low, the engine can run the electric motor as a generator to recharge the batteries. But it wasn't set up like the locomotive are
I was thinking that was the other way around. The Volt was all electric and the Bolt was the hybrid. My mistake. Dean
Yep
The output of the generator on the other hand I think is in the range of 480 to 600 volts. Apparently one was used one to power a small town. I still haven't figured out how voltage and frequency matched up so perfectly unless they also use 480v 60Hz 3 phase as a standard.
In "modern" Diesel Electric plants, the generator runs at a constant Voltage and Frequency. The speed of the motor being driven can be adjusted a few different ways. In American applications the Generator will be running at 60Hz. Voltage varies but as time has gone on it has increased. If it is an older locomotive it is very possible its running 480V.
Yeah, a bit out of my league. I have been in business aviation all of my career. Everything I work on is DC. Only thing we used AC for is windshield heat and basic outlets in the cabin. I know some of the EV cars that are out there run as high as 900 volts to get the most range out of them! Even with some protective circuitry in them it is not something I want to plug into outside in the rain! Also ever seen a lithium-ion battery short out? It looks like a run away blow torch! Not exactly something I want to leave in my garage while charging. EVs are NOT the way forward. Eventually I do think that hydrogen power is in the future a more viable option if they can figure out a good storage system for it on cars. Dean
For hydrogen, not just a good storage solution as it loves to leak past everything. But also a means of extraction that is energy efficient. Right now it takes more energy to get hydrogen then hydrogen provides. Plus the issue with most hydrogen coming from petroleum or petroleum sources.
Then there is the issue with it being extremely flammable with a wide air to fuel ratio so it burns in just about every condition. The flame is invisible too
Then the temperature it burns at which creates NOX and we know how that is working out for diesel engines
Materials will need some improvement too as there is the problem with hydrogen embrittlement
Have you seen what ot takes to refill one of the tanks?
There is a lot more hurtals to overcome before it's worth using. And I think by then battery technology will have progressed to the point where it won't be necessary
Even if the battery technology evolves enough we are decades away from having anything close to a power grid that will work for EVs on a mass scale. Dean