Allison 5sp: Hard part-throttle shifts

DAVe3283

Heavy & Slow
Sep 3, 2009
3,681
236
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Boise, ID, USA
I had my trans built @ Inglewood back in June, and for the most part is has been working well. I now have ~12,188 miles on the transmission. Last spin-on filter change looked normal (fluid looks good, debris on the filter magnet is minimal, just like a stock trans). It has been good for the most part.

However, recently things have been starting to worry me.
First, the transmission has used 2 quarts of ATF since it was built (how?!?). It does not appear to leak anywhere. I am very confused by this, because the fluid has to go somewhere, but where? This might be related to the next issue.

Second, the light-throttle shifts are getting downright bad. At 50% throttle and up, it shifts like it should. However, around 25% throttle and below, it is embarrassing. It shifts very firmly (if I am lucky) to a downright slam into gear (makes the drivetrain emit a loud CRACK when that happens, and throws my head into the headrest). This started about a month ago, and has gotten steadily worse. Strangely, 4th gear always shifts perfectly (3-->4 and 5-->4 shifts are perfect every time). It is the other shifts that are slamming.

Shifting from park (or neutral) into drive is just fine. Smooth and quick. However, from park/neutral into reverse is getting bad too. It will always slam in hard enough to make the driveline clunk, and sometimes when you put it into reverse it sits there for 1-2 seconds in neutral before suddenly slamming into reverse.

Finally, if I manually lock out 5th (mountains or whatever), then turn the lock off at light throttle (top of a hill, down hill, etc.), it will slam into gear very hard, every time. Again, makes the drivetrain "CRACK" somewhere, slams my head back, etc.

I have run the same tune for 4 months now, since well before the problem started. The transmission tune is the stock 2003 tune with WOT shift points raised to 3600 RPM. U-joints are good.

So: what should I try. I have not tried resetting TAPS. Should I reset them all, or skip the 3-->4 and 5-->4 shifts, since they are fine. Should I try a different TCM OS?

I can post my TCM tune, and I think I can post my ECM tune (need to make sure there is nothing proprietary left). At least I can post MPBW, TBIQ, tq. tables, etc.

Thoughts gentlemen?
 

RENODMAX

Dead Wrong
Mar 4, 2008
3,602
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Have you tried your old tune before the current one? I would rule out tuning first but I've never had a bad shift generated from tuning as bad as what you're describing.
 

DAVe3283

Heavy & Slow
Sep 3, 2009
3,681
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Boise, ID, USA
I can load up a different tune, but I had the transmission built at the same time as a new turbo and 60% injectors, so the stock tune runs like crap.

I figured tuning wouldn't be likely because it started without any changes in tuning being made. I'll give another tune a shot anyway as soon as some of the snow melts.
 

DAVe3283

Heavy & Slow
Sep 3, 2009
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Boise, ID, USA
Cold when it was built. It was mostly up on the cold range.
Now I tested it cold and hot. In both cases, it is (now) mostly at the top of the range. However, to keep it there, it has taken 2 quarts in 6 months.

After changing the filter last time, it was off the bottom of the dipstick when cold (and I fill the new filter before spinning it on).
 

Mike L.

Got Sheep?
Staff member
Vendor/Sponsor
Aug 12, 2006
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Fullerton CA
The fluid can only go 3 places. radiator, transfercase, or the ground. If there are no signs of a leak you know where to look. Pull the fill plug on the TC and see if it's overfull. Make sure the trans is full. Check at operating temp in Park. Read both sides of the stick and if one side is lower, use that as your reference level as the higher level will be splash. Fluid can also leak at the rear harness connector, but it would show something with a 2 qt loss.
 

DAVe3283

Heavy & Slow
Sep 3, 2009
3,681
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Boise, ID, USA
The transfer case fill plug is somewhat stripped (rounded off), so I didn't even bother trying to get it off. I will order a new one and try to take it off when I have the new one to put back on.

So, ignoring the fluid level (which might be temperature caused, I'll buy that), what would/could cause the hard light-throttle shifts, while heavy throttle is just fine?
 

Mike L.

Got Sheep?
Staff member
Vendor/Sponsor
Aug 12, 2006
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Fullerton CA
The transfer case fill plug is somewhat stripped (rounded off), so I didn't even bother trying to get it off. I will order a new one and try to take it off when I have the new one to put back on.

So, ignoring the fluid level (which might be temperature caused, I'll buy that), what would/could cause the hard light-throttle shifts, while heavy throttle is just fine?

Don't know what you mean about ignoring fluid level. Make sure fluid level is correct as too low a level will cause crazy shifts.
 

DAVe3283

Heavy & Slow
Sep 3, 2009
3,681
236
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Boise, ID, USA
Don't know what you mean about ignoring fluid level. Make sure fluid level is correct as too low a level will cause crazy shifts.
Sorry, I mean ignoring where it might be going.

The level is correct at the moment. I added some yesterday (was down, but might be because it is 20-30 degrees here), and now it is at the middle of the hot range after a 30 minute drive. It did seem to help make the bad shifts less frequent, but it still does it, which is why I posted.
 

DAVe3283

Heavy & Slow
Sep 3, 2009
3,681
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Boise, ID, USA
Does it need more than 1 day of driving to "fix" a low level? It was 1 quart low yesterday, and I drove it 30 miles or so after filling it to the right level again.
 

dmax lb7

EFI Ignorant
Feb 21, 2008
79
0
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Rohnert Park Nor-Cal
I am having pretty much the same problems as you minus the fluid loss. Mike has bent over backwards trying to help me figure it out and still is. Cant ask for better custumer service. If we have the same problem I can tell you the shifting gets worse. It seems mine is an electrical problem, still trying to find it though.
 

DAVe3283

Heavy & Slow
Sep 3, 2009
3,681
236
63
Boise, ID, USA
There is good news and bad news.

First, the good news: I reset the TAPs with the fluid at the right level, and it is starting to shift better and better. The most frequent shifts (which it has had the most time to learn) are perfect now, can't even feel them! :woott: I think that once the rest learn, they will all be perfect too! Driving on ice is not nearly as dangerous now.

Next, I finally was able to get the transfer case fill plug out. When I looked at it yesterday, it was rounded off, so I didn't even try. I got the new one today, and after much fighting, I was able to remove the old plug. It was rounded off so bad I had to use pliers, and it was tightened all the way flush, so I had to use the "hand of god" on the pliers to get it to come loose.
Fill Plugs.jpg

The bad news: Turns out the fluid is not overfull. So that is not where it is going. Radiator fluid looks normal, and is at the right level. Not sure how to check besides that, but it doesn't appear to be going there either. I will crawl around the transmission some more, but I didn't see any leaks, and it doesn't leave a puddle when parked. Maybe it is coming out only while driving?

So, my shifts are happy again, just need to track down the leak. Until then, I will be checking the fluid every time I drive to make sure it doesn't get low again.
 

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DAVe3283

Heavy & Slow
Sep 3, 2009
3,681
236
63
Boise, ID, USA
Yes, because 500 miles after it was built, my brother and I put on a LML (driver's side) dipstick tube to clear a new turbo setup. It was topped off at that point (it leaked some out while swapping the tube).
 

Duramax One

Vote for Pedro
Aug 11, 2012
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Oroville, CA
...my brother and I put on a LML (driver's side) dipstick tube...It was topped off at that point

Nostalgic proof:

Once everything was fitted, my truck was thirsty:
0824121120.jpg

Left to right: ATF to replace what drained out during the swap to a LML (driver's side) dipstick tube, new coolant, motor oil, and distilled water to mix with the coolant.
 

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cmitchell17
Sep 8, 2008
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When I first changed the spin on after my sc3 about a year or 2 after it mysteriously lost like 2 quarts and couldn't figure out why I was getting range shifts inhibited until I finally found out I was low. I also feel like something in the newer tcm os that makes itself learn unnecessarily hard shifts at low throttle that an 01os doesn't do.