DuraMaxin out the stock LBZ short block

Hot COCOAL

May the farce be with you
Jun 9, 2012
4,433
0
0
So, for the life of me, I can't find anything like this, so I'm gonna ask.

So the LBZ can handle 650ish to ehh, 700ish on the factory Rotating assembly. But what's the best way to set up everything around it? Twin over stock instantly comes to mind, s366 and 40's...all sorts of ways people "have" done it. But what's the best?

Even though twins run more air, and may be better for the pistons, I decided that a bigger single turbo might actually be better in terms of longevity of the stock rods, because the twins bring on tq harder at low/lower rpm's, also, for immediate goals, twins are more expensive to set up properly and I want a bigger "small" charger than a stocker when/if I did decide to go the twin turbo route

I have been slowly piecing together my take on this over the last two years, and thanks to all the diesel hotrodders out there for documenting progress, results, data and making performance parts so that guys like me can best utilize our means:thumb:

Here's my take on a 650ishwhp stock LBZ duramax street truck(it's an evolving plan:joker:)
4094avant with plans to upgrade to a vgt72
Intercooler
Built trans
60% exergy's
Dual fueler


so i got the built trans with billet goodies, i upgraded the turbo, intercooler and y-bridge, and now, as opportunity would have it, the route I finally took for fuel was with a slightly used set of 60% over injectors courtesy of DetailsUnlimited (Turk). Now, I'm thinking about supplying those injectors and after more research it seems to me that the stock cp3 will handle these 60 overs at a power level of 650? What do you all think? Do I need more pump to meet this goal? I kinda have this gut feeling that as long as the pump is stock I won't exponentially increase the risk of engine failure, therefor keep everything together longer.

Of course, there is a "in the future" plan of a built short block, but until then...I want my cake and I want to eat it too.

As always, thanks for your thoughts :D
 

Hot COCOAL

May the farce be with you
Jun 9, 2012
4,433
0
0
Twins will run cooler egts and the torque is in the tuning,a good tuner will tune for your set up.

X2
But as I said, as of now I decided to run a single, as for the fuel needed to hit my target goal of 650whp, will the stock LBZ pump produce enough fuel for the 60 overs to make the power?
 

blk smoke lb7

<-----Lots of green $
Nov 8, 2010
5,694
0
36
57
belvidere,ill
X2
But as I said, as of now I decided to run a single, as for the fuel needed to hit my target goal of 650whp, will the stock LBZ pump produce enough fuel for the 60 overs to make the power?
I don't think so your gonna be around 600 575 and running the rail out of fuel IMO.
 

Hot COCOAL

May the farce be with you
Jun 9, 2012
4,433
0
0
I don't think so your gonna be around 600 575 and running the rail out of fuel IMO.

I think I'm close to 575 now, no issues running out of fuel yet, still holds 24k+ rail when w.o.t in the kill tune lol, not sure what the pw/us is in that tune?
 

mike diesel

I'm alright.
Sep 6, 2012
4,005
0
36
SLC, Utah
60's are big for a stock pump. Going to be hard to make decent power and maintain rail pressure.

I run 30's with the 72mm vgt on a stock pump and am happy. Pulse and timing are down far enough that i can maintain 24,000 psi on my #5 tune and 26,000 on my #4 tune and still run a 12.9 @ 106 in the quarter mile @ 4500 feet elevation and 7100 DA in my crew cab. I'm comfortable at the 620 HP mark with my current setup.
 

Jscherbs

PIN IT TO WIN IT!!!
Oct 27, 2009
753
0
0
Canton, MI
650-700 can be done with a stock LBZ pump and the 60% overs you plan on running.

you could go for higher but why? the pump is what's limiting you and that's the way you want to keep it if you are trying to keep the stock motor together...

example, friend has stock lb7 cp3 with 100% overs. he never drains the rail or runs out of fuel because he doesn't tune for more than his motor can handle... His motor can handle 600 so he tuned for 600.
 

Hot COCOAL

May the farce be with you
Jun 9, 2012
4,433
0
0
I run 30's with the 72mm vgt on a stock pump and am happy. Pulse and timing are down far enough that i can maintain 24,000 psi on my #5 tune and 26,000 on my #4 tune and still run a 12.9 @ 106 in the quarter mile @ 4500 feet elevation and 7100 DA in my crew cab. I'm comfortable at the 620 HP mark with my current setup.

:thumb:that's pretty sweet

I'm hoping that I will maintain rail with the 60's, theoretically, if you can run 620whp so can I, shouldn't matter so much how it's set up, as much as the amount of fuel required, and you are making 620whp, right? So 650 shouldn't be too far out there for a max "target" goal out of the stock LBZ cp3, realistically I know anything in the low 600's is pretty killer on a stock pump and I would be thrilled to hit 620-630whp, just shooting for 650 is all...
 

blk smoke lb7

<-----Lots of green $
Nov 8, 2010
5,694
0
36
57
belvidere,ill
650-700 can be done with a stock LBZ pump and the 60% overs you plan on running.

you could go for higher but why? the pump is what's limiting you and that's the way you want to keep it if you are trying to keep the stock motor together...

example, friend has stock lb7 cp3 with 100% overs. he never drains the rail or runs out of fuel because he doesn't tune for more than his motor can handle... His motor can handle 600 so he tuned for 600.
I find that hard to believe I know a II366 can drain the rail with 45 overs at 575,a lbz pump will flow a bit more but I don't see 60 overs making much over 600.Maybe im wrong:dontknow:
 

Hot COCOAL

May the farce be with you
Jun 9, 2012
4,433
0
0
650-700 can be done with a stock LBZ pump and the 60% overs you plan on running.

you could go for higher but why? the pump is what's limiting you and that's the way you want to keep it if you are trying to keep the stock motor together...

example, friend has stock lb7 cp3 with 100% overs. he never drains the rail or runs out of fuel because he doesn't tune for more than his motor can handle... His motor can handle 600 so he tuned for 600.

Perfect answer for me:thumb:
That's kinda what I expected, or was hoping for, fingers crossed how this turns out then:baby:
 

Jscherbs

PIN IT TO WIN IT!!!
Oct 27, 2009
753
0
0
Canton, MI
I find that hard to believe I know a II366 can drain the rail with 45 overs at 575,a lbz pump will flow a bit more but I don't see 60 overs making much over 600.Maybe im wrong:dontknow:

I would find a different tuner for that truck. I made 614 on stock injectors, stock lb7 cp3 and held 23k rail. my buddys lb7 cp3 truck made 640 with his 100% overs, I forget what us tune (small as hell tho) and he maintained 22k rail without issue... lbz's can certainly support more than that.
 
Last edited:

Hot COCOAL

May the farce be with you
Jun 9, 2012
4,433
0
0
I find that hard to believe I know a II366 can drain the rail with 45 overs at 575,a lbz pump will flow a bit more but I don't see 60 overs making much over 600.Maybe im wrong:dontknow:

On an lb7?
Maybe cuz 45's on an lb7 are like 60's or even bigger on an lbz:D

Sure the 60's could drain the rail, but can they be run hard enough on the stock pump and tuned properly to make 650? And I think the answer is yes...
 

Jscherbs

PIN IT TO WIN IT!!!
Oct 27, 2009
753
0
0
Canton, MI
On an lb7?
Maybe cuz 45's on an lb7 are like 60's or even bigger on an lbz:D

Sure the 60's could drain the rail, but can they be run hard enough on the stock pump and tuned properly to make 650? And I think the answer is yes...

the key to this is the biggest tune you can run without draining rail. I know of a ton of stock pump trucks that drain rail on their big tunes and run slower than they do on their tow tunes that don't drain the rail lol
 

Hot COCOAL

May the farce be with you
Jun 9, 2012
4,433
0
0
the key to this is the biggest tune you can run without draining rail. I know of a ton of stock pump trucks that drain rail on their big tunes and run slower than they do on their tow tunes that don't drain the rail lol

Yeah, I don't want to be another guy on that list, thanks for the input:hug: I knew I was gonna get conflicting results on this topic/question, but it seems 650whp on the stock pump has been done several times over and I for one do wanna be on that list;) or even close to being on that list
 

Jscherbs

PIN IT TO WIN IT!!!
Oct 27, 2009
753
0
0
Canton, MI
damage can still happen at 650 with an lbz don't kid yourself. from pistons to crank id be careful.

LBZ Horror story: Friend did 4094 483 twins on his lbz with 40% overs, broke crank at 625. then broke an lb7 crank after he built it, then he broke an internally balanced lb7 crank. he then sold the truck. moral of this story is to be careful ANYWHERE around 600 otherwise you could end up over your head.
 

Hot COCOAL

May the farce be with you
Jun 9, 2012
4,433
0
0
damage can still happen at 650 with an lbz don't kid yourself. from pistons to crank id be careful.

LBZ Horror story: Friend did 4094 483 twins on his lbz with 40% overs, broke crank at 625. then broke an lb7 crank after he built it, then he broke an internally balanced lb7 crank. he then sold the truck. moral of this story is to be careful ANYWHERE around 600 otherwise you could end up over your head.

Good advise, there is no real "safe zone" once you just add the tune, really, there's that huge amount of trust you have to put into your tuner, if you don't tune it yourself, I don't feel like I'm walking int unknown territory here and feel like its a fairly reasonable request for the tuner(s) I have in mind
 

Dirtymaxx03

Active member
Aug 4, 2009
3,110
1
38
It's all gonna depend on how healthy your stock cp3 is. It may be able to make the pressure off the bat, but that doesn't mean it's going to be able to continue providing the rail pressure you'll need. It may be able to make the power but it will weaken your pump over time. Why not run another stock pump with the one you have and keep it healthy.