Driveline Vibration, complex find

DougSmith

New member
Ok, long story, I will try to keep it short.
I had my 3 ujoints replaced in early March. Only the rear one was bad, but at 175,000 then, I figured just change them out. Done, Bad vibration at about 35 mph. The fix was, that the guy who did the swap put the 2 driveshafts together 180 degrees off. So I got that fixed at my dealer, they checked the shafts for balance, everything was assembled and life was good.

2 weeks later on a trip to NC, I got a wif of what I thought was rear end grease, but it was that the TCase seal had come out of the TCase and was spraying a little fluid out as I drove down the road. Went to a dealer in Ashville NC and they said the Carrier was bad, and it was, replaced that, balanced shafts again to make sure all was well, and replaced T Case seal.
Life was good and no vibration. a few weeks later, I started to feel a small shudder on launch. It did not matter what I did, WOT or easy, still there. in 4wd, or 2wd, still there. over the summer it just got a little more pronounced and I finally got fed up and took back to dealer. They looked and checked things out and found the carrier rubber was torn all the way around it, and swapped the carrier out as it was under warranty from the NC dealer install. I was out the door and no vibration.... for about 500 miles, then the vibration came back.

So I did some research and found that most people that see this type of vibration just dropped the carrier down some to compensate for a changed angle on the pinion. Well, that does not solve the problem as to why it is doing it in the first place. For 5 years the truck was smooth as silk, then just develops a vibration??? I dont think so, something else is wrong and hard to track down.
One last experiment by me was that I loaded up 500lbs of sand in the bed, and drove around 500 miles of vibration free ride, but low and behold it started back up again and it was worse than ever. Right now we are throwing things at it. I am changing tires tomorrow, but do not see how it could be tires as the vibration is from about 3mph to about 20mph then it smooths out and undetectable.
We are pulling the diff cover off tomorrow to see if something in there is bad, but, at one point I jacked up the rear end and put the axle on jackstands and let the wheels spin with no load, and the vebration was still there at those speeds, so with no load on tires and no load on rear diff as both tires off the ground and the truck at nearly level road height, it was still there, so it also eliminates axle wrap as the culprit too.

I also suspect that my original vibration from the out of clock driveshaft could have bent the Slip yoke some, and dont have one loacally to put in a check that. All ujoints double checked, but I am not above putting 3 more on it to see.

Any ideas? I am not dropping the carrier as it was not needed to do that for 175,000 miles and I will not start it today.
Motor mounts? Tranny Mounts?
 

JoshH

Daggum farm truck
Staff member
Vendor/Sponsor
Feb 14, 2007
13,599
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Not to add any confusion to your search, but you can't put a drive shaft 180 degrees out of phase.
 

DougSmith

New member
Actually Josh, yes you can. My 2 piece shaft was keyed in 2 places, 180 off. I got under the truck myself while they had it out and they showed me how that for some reason, on the 2500HD 2 piecers, GM ran out at some point in 2006, and had a contractor just make a bunch and they ended up not being correctly keyed. So who knows really how many 2 piecers are like that, but I figure it was a couple months worth in early 2006, mine was made in late April that year. I also do not have the same tail lights on my truck as 90% of other GMCs have from 2006. Gotta love GM.

Changed tires, still no fix. Pulled diff cover, all is well, no debris what so ever, ran the fluid through a cheese cloth filter before pulling the cover and there was nothing but a very fine spot of dark dust. Inspected everything in diff, by taking out, and all is perfect and no signs of wear, scarring.

I do have access to another truck just like mine and we are going to swap out the entire drive shaft assembly including slip yoke back to rear u joint. That truck is smooth as silk, so then we can hopefully narrow it down to just that. then swap out pieces that are easy and cheap.

Still, no one has any ideas why a driveline would just started shuddering after about 175,000 miles when everything appears to be pristine? Any one had bad expierences with Brute Force U Joints?
 

DougSmith

New member
I did the drive shaft swap out today with my uncles truck and my truck once again was GM smooth. no vibration, nothing but clean, smooth, acceleration.

SO, this is what that means according to a couple in the field.

First, the motor mounts and tranny mounts are not bad yet.
The angles of my drive line are correct.
Also, the ujoints are just fine as well, so that leaves the slip yoke. I have a drive line specialist looking at it tomorrow to spec it and see how far off of OEM it is.

Also, this is what I have learned from a couple Experts.

Vibration in a drive line has certain tell tells. If the vibration occurs between about 35 mph up to about 60, then it is a balance issue or u joint problem.

If the vibration is from a stand still to about 35, then it is a mount issue, or yokes. Mount issue also includes angles.

I was just lucky to be able to swap out a drive line that had no vibrations to see where it pointed on my truck.

I will post again on Friday if the problem is resolved, also, if it is the slip yoke, then I dont know how long it will take to get one.
 

jlawles2

Well-known member
Jan 28, 2010
1,044
33
48
Danbury, TX
Have you checked the bi balancer on the rear end yolk to see if the rubber in it has gone out.

Could be that your driveshaft is slightly out of balance and the large damper is only able to catch the vibration at high speed due to harmonics.
 

Mike_S

OOPS!
Nov 18, 2009
803
0
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40
Idaho
Huh, cant be anything wrong with anything....he runs amsoil! Still the same 10 quarts after 400,000 miles! :roflmao:
 

JoshH

Daggum farm truck
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Feb 14, 2007
13,599
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Actually Josh, yes you can.
Well, I'm not trying to start an argument here, but you shouldn't be able to. Let me explain a little. I'm not saying you can't physically change the position of the drive shafts 180 degrees from each other. What I'm saying is, doing that shouldn't change anything with the drive shaft. The shafts should be balanced independently from one another. The only reason changing the orientation of the rear drive shaft could cause vibration is if it was out of phase with the front drive shaft. If you turned it exactly 180 degrees, then it wasn't out of phase.
 

lotsofmiles

Father of the Van
Dec 4, 2008
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dealer told me the 2 piece shaft is balanced as a unit, not independently from one another. But IDK they said some crazy stuff before
 

Chevy1925

don't know sh!t about IFS
Staff member
Oct 21, 2009
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Phoenix Az
I did the drive shaft swap out today with my uncles truck and my truck once again was GM smooth. no vibration, nothing but clean, smooth, acceleration.

SO, this is what that means according to a couple in the field.

First, the motor mounts and tranny mounts are not bad yet.
The angles of my drive line are correct.
Also, the ujoints are just fine as well, so that leaves the slip yoke. I have a drive line specialist looking at it tomorrow to spec it and see how far off of OEM it is.

Also, this is what I have learned from a couple Experts.

Vibration in a drive line has certain tell tells. If the vibration occurs between about 35 mph up to about 60, then it is a balance issue or u joint problem.

If the vibration is from a stand still to about 35, then it is a mount issue, or yokes. Mount issue also includes angles.

I was just lucky to be able to swap out a drive line that had no vibrations to see where it pointed on my truck.

I will post again on Friday if the problem is resolved, also, if it is the slip yoke, then I dont know how long it will take to get one.

There is no set way to tell if its u-joints/balance/bentshaft/ect. basing it on speed is a way to start your determination but does not infact mean thats what it is. Everything your talking about is screaming u-joints to me or a bent shaft (not a slip yoke). But since your stating its getting worse, im going with u-joints. New or not, if they put some junk ones in there (anything other Gm or spicer, napa precisions seem to be hit or miss), they will go out quickly and do as you describe. Doin the quick "twist driveshaft and mount opposite direction to feel for slop" isnt a good determination either. loosing/spinning u-joint caps can cause vib, a joint that has next to no resistance when you physically move the joint around by the tow ends of the driveshaft can cause vibration, any click you hear while twisting or little resistance in certain spots means a bad joint, and if a cap looks like it got hot it will do this.

ive had a ton of experience in this area with my truck and my rock crawler. i daily drive my rock crawler right now and have every managable issue so far possible with driveline vibrationdue to bent shaft, bad joints, axle wrap, ect from me goin and playin on the weekends then drivin to work

dealer told me the 2 piece shaft is balanced as a unit, not independently from one another. But IDK they said some crazy stuff before

Id like to see how they'd do that concidering you cant put a carrier bearing on there due to the movement allowed in it, not to mention that would have to be long as all hell :D
 
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DougSmith

New member
Well, I'm not trying to start an argument here, but you shouldn't be able to. Let me explain a little. I'm not saying you can't physically change the position of the drive shafts 180 degrees from each other. What I'm saying is, doing that shouldn't change anything with the drive shaft. The shafts should be balanced independently from one another. The only reason changing the orientation of the rear drive shaft could cause vibration is if it was out of phase with the front drive shaft. If you turned it exactly 180 degrees, then it wasn't out of phase.

That is true for single driveshafts, but the 2 piece shafts are balanced as one unit. So therfore, if that one unit is put together 180 off, it vibrates, and I mean, FREAKING shakes your teeth vibrates from about 25 to 50 mph depending on many factors for the speed variances.
 

DougSmith

New member
We have a winner. CHEVY1925 wins the prize!

It was u joints. I have 3 new shiny Spicer ones installed and all is smooth as silk as it should be. Finally. The shafts spec'd out perfect, and balance was right on the money, so all that was left was these 3, 6 month old POS u joints from Advance called Brute Force. MY ASS! Lesson learned.

And to the wise guy about the Amsoil, I switched over to the Amsoil 75w-90 Sever Gear diff fluid in the rear, when my truck had 10,000 miles on it. During this process as noted, they drained the fluid and took off the diff cover and at 195,000 the diff looks brand new inside. The metal dust on the magnet was barely visible when wiped off with a blue shop towel that you can buy the rolls at Walmart. So for 185,000 miles and still going storng, I think I will leave your judgement alone, because mine seems to be working out ok.
 

PAT

EASY DAY
Aug 21, 2011
1,100
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Some good troubleshooting you did bud! Glad you got it fixed. And the info you gave about the driveline specialist is a good tidbit of info to keep. I like it!