2013 LML Injector fuel knock

Chevy1925

don't know sh!t about IFS
Staff member
Oct 21, 2009
21,222
5,057
113
Phoenix Az
Helping a buddy of mine figure this out and its becoming a royal pain.

hes got a 2013 LML thats deleted. hes running tunes that i particularly care for but based on my logging, they are not the issue. Get to more on that later. Little back history.

Few months back, truck lost a piston. Wanted to do a build right then and there but i didnt have the time to fit it in within his time frame. So he went for a LKQ engine. it came with everything top to bottom but they swapped over injectors, put a new Cp4 in "just in case", reused alot of the stuff that came off his truck knowing its good. bascially stripped it down to a long block and put all the trucks original stuff back on this engine. they got it back together and about 100 miles in, the truck started developing a fuel knock from 1100rpm to 1500rpm, above that, quiet as can be. Also throws P12BA cyl 4 injector timing advanced. At this point, he called me and we started going over the truck. watched timing and rail pressure. actual follows commanded to a T and runs 10k rail at 1500rpm and 28mm3. fuel timing is from -1 to +4 from 1100-1500rpm and fluctuates depending on mm3 input. So no real smoking gun there. i told him to swap cyl 4 injector with cyl 8 to see if it followed.... he went and replaced all 8 injectors instead. Supposably it was fixed. truck went to cali and back towing and now knock is coming back as well as codes P2599, P12BA, P12B8.

I honestly feel its tune related but i figured id see anyone else has dealt with this first. truck doesnt haze, drives nice besides the knock, comes on boost quick, and doesnt indicate any other issues. Compression is 420psi across the board, no bad wires, and tune is set to "stock" but its a deleted stock im told does nothing other than turn off codes and what not. The tuner will not send me a 100% stock tune to flash in and test - again, another reason i dont like the tuning but i want to give a definitive reason before saying "go drop another 1k on tuning with someone else and lets see IF it fixes it".

if you guys need more data, let me know.
 

Chevy1925

don't know sh!t about IFS
Staff member
Oct 21, 2009
21,222
5,057
113
Phoenix Az
yes, knock is not designated to one injector. in fact, turning one off makes the truck knock worse (doesnt matter what one you turn off, same affect)
 

gmac32

Member
Dec 8, 2009
288
3
18
bellville ohio
Had the same problem with mine and it was the tune. I replaced to injectors and that wasn't the problem. I shut the injectors off and found the one that was knocking and replaced it and it was still knocking. Ended being the tuning
 

LBZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Jul 2, 2007
9,903
149
63
45
B.C.
Maybe someone has another stock deleted tune you could try if you know what the OS is. Sounds tune-ish to me.
 

DAVe3283

Heavy & Slow
Sep 3, 2009
3,683
236
63
Boise, ID, USA
Man, this has me nervous about the LML swap I'm doing for my uncle. We're putting a 2014 LML into an old F350. Pre-smog, so it will be deleted. I figured it should be pretty straightforward, but now I'm doubting myself...

Is this something where you need CAX files to adjust hidden tables for a delete tune to work right, or someone was just messing with things they did not understand? I'm looking to do a stock, delete only tune like this, and figured it should be idiot-proof.

I have stock tune files for most OSes, but they aren't deleted yet. I can post one up if you find out the OS number you need.
 

Chevy1925

don't know sh!t about IFS
Staff member
Oct 21, 2009
21,222
5,057
113
Phoenix Az
Thanks guys. Appreciate the info. I’m seeing if he can get me the factory tune from the tuner, otherwise I gotta go the vin route. I don’t trust he used the factory OS to build off of

Dave, I don’t think this is something you will have issues with but lml’s are flipping picky. I know josh made a bunch of cax files for tables he had to find to turn certain picky trucks codes off but my buddies 15.5 doesn’t have any of these issues. I do know the pressure relief valve on the rail actually controls rail pressure up to a certain point, then the fpr takes over. I wanna say 10-12k is the break point but can’t remember what josh told me. There’s other weird shit like that I’m told.

Ike, that’s stuff I’ve found but this being tuned, some of this doesn’t fit the bill.
 

Bonestock

Active member
Aug 9, 2010
1,358
1
38
Worland Wy
I have had a few lml that do not liked advanced timing at all in that rpm range. Most of them are better off following the factory timing map in that rpm range.
 

Chevy1925

don't know sh!t about IFS
Staff member
Oct 21, 2009
21,222
5,057
113
Phoenix Az
Thanks guys. Tuner wont send the stock tune and playing the "its not the tune" game without even taking a look. i didnt like the guy before, now i really dont.

Ill get the VIN and PM you gmac
 

JoshH

Daggum farm truck
Staff member
Vendor/Sponsor
Feb 14, 2007
13,599
633
113
Texas!!!
James, take a look at pilot injection when the truck is knocking. I had a truck that developed a knock after tuning, and I found there are stock pilot quantity tables that significantly ramp up pilot injection in the 1000-1500 RPM range on these trucks in the 20-50 mm3 fuel quantity range. I lowered the fuel pilot fuel quantity to be more in line with the surrounding cells, and the knock went away. I have since started doing this on all of the LMLs I tuned. I can't explain why those tables became an issue only after I tuned it, but that is what I had to do to fix it. I hope that helps some. It may have nothing to do with your problem though because this truck wasn't throwing any codes.
 

GMC_2002_Dmax

The Still Master
Find out if the tuner has altered the 5 injection events controls or not.

There is a method to run 2 pilot, main, and 2 post events and or alter what is on or not.


Some trucks with injector codes for retarded or advanced DTC Codes have these issues, I have dealt with a few trucks with injector codes that ran fine with no knocking and some that knocked at low rpm with no DTC Injector Codes.

Is the base file correct for the truck 100%.
 

Chevy1925

don't know sh!t about IFS
Staff member
Oct 21, 2009
21,222
5,057
113
Phoenix Az
James, take a look at pilot injection when the truck is knocking. I had a truck that developed a knock after tuning, and I found there are stock pilot quantity tables that significantly ramp up pilot injection in the 1000-1500 RPM range on these trucks in the 20-50 mm3 fuel quantity range. I lowered the fuel pilot fuel quantity to be more in line with the surrounding cells, and the knock went away. I have since started doing this on all of the LMLs I tuned. I can't explain why those tables became an issue only after I tuned it, but that is what I had to do to fix it. I hope that helps some. It may have nothing to do with your problem though because this truck wasn't throwing any codes.

Thanks josh. ill be able to get back into the truck wednesday, ill see if i can pull the tune and what we can get away with.

Find out if the tuner has altered the 5 injection events controls or not.

There is a method to run 2 pilot, main, and 2 post events and or alter what is on or not.


Some trucks with injector codes for retarded or advanced DTC Codes have these issues, I have dealt with a few trucks with injector codes that ran fine with no knocking and some that knocked at low rpm with no DTC Injector Codes.

Is the base file correct for the truck 100%.

Thanks Tony. He wont say a damn thing. one of those "my shit dont stink" type guys. i have no clue if the file is 100% for the truck. i wouldnt put it past the tuner to not use the correct one, hence i want to find a 100% stock base file for it. Ill have to find a deleted tune based on it though as i dont have the option to do deletes with my efi live. have not done "the mod" yet.
 

Bonestock

Active member
Aug 9, 2010
1,358
1
38
Worland Wy
Find out if the tuner has altered the 5 injection events controls or not.

There is a method to run 2 pilot, main, and 2 post events and or alter what is on or not.


Some trucks with injector codes for retarded or advanced DTC Codes have these issues, I have dealt with a few trucks with injector codes that ran fine with no knocking and some that knocked at low rpm with no DTC Injector Codes.

Is the base file correct for the truck 100%.

One of the trucks that come to mind is the Mercer truck you dialed in for me. At first it had timing rattle in that rpm range. Cts showed timing a little more elevated. Then when you sent me a reflash it corrected it right away. Timing #'s were a bit lower on the cts in that range. Whatever you have done for me on the lml have worked great!