What size should I plan for? My truck is a DD, with occasional trips to the track, and possible some sled pulling in the future. I'd like to hit 500-550 RWHP, if that power level is "survivable" for the motor with larger injectors. I was thinking 40-45%. Suggestions?
What nozzles?
- Thread starter Cougar281
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I would think a modded FPR, lift pump and good EFI tune will get you there without injectors. Pat made 800 HP on stock sticks.
Yeah, but I want to do it with minimal chance of blowing my motor. I am planning the LBZ/LMM CP3, WD regulator, porting the rail fittings and I already have Lift pumps, but from everything I've heard, the huge duration and timing required for the power level is what kills motors more than the power level, so I'd like to be able to back down the duration and timing while making similar power. Check out Brayden's posts in this thread to see what I'm talkign about. No offence, but it seem Pat's been through a few motors at 800HP. Yes, it can be done, but the longevity just isn't there.
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exactly what im lookin to do, ive already toasted 2 pistons so im lookin at gettin some bigger nozzles.
At first we thought big injectors blew up engines. It seemed everyone with big injectors blew up. That was 3 years ago. Today most the big injector trucks still blow up. Even with almost no timing.
If you are putting in big injectors, do it for good reason, but don't let a salesman convince you they are magic wands that increase engine life when history shows the opposite.
Just my opinion but I have made about 50 passes with my truck and I drive it like I stole it every day with Industrial Injection 90hp (about 45%) injectors. Those passes were a few 12.8s then the rest have been 12.5 or faster. I am also pushing up to 50 psi of boost and don't even have head studs. I'm not saying it will last forever but it seems to be holding up to the abuse I'm giving it so far. EGTs don't go over 1400* in 4WD WOT passes either. I have a stock LBZ CP3 and hold about 21K PSI rail pressure, give it just enough fuel to have a very slight haze down the track - there's never been anything injected in my truck either.
IMO getting the fuel you need to make power in quickly and at the right time will give you power both more effeciently and more safely rather that spraying from way before TDC to chasing the piston down the cyclinder with fuel. Hopefully the cylinder pressure testing will answer these questions. I don't sell, hone, or modify injectors - and I believe that Fleece doesn't do any of those things either.
IMO getting the fuel you need to make power in quickly and at the right time will give you power both more effeciently and more safely rather that spraying from way before TDC to chasing the piston down the cyclinder with fuel. Hopefully the cylinder pressure testing will answer these questions. I don't sell, hone, or modify injectors - and I believe that Fleece doesn't do any of those things either.
That's where I'm thinking... 550RWHP with oversize injectors and lower timing is probably easier on the engine than 550RWHP on stock injectors spraying the piston down before TDC and then chasing the piston down the hole. I guessing that a high HP engine that had oversize injectors from the start probably would show less (or no) "star pattern" on the pistons from overspray, and probably would make power more efficiently due to most/all the fuel being injected at the proper time. Now, if you get oversize injectors, tune the heck out of it, push 900HP/1800tq, yeah, stuff'll break.
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12.5 is what, 550HP?
We ran lots of 11 sec passes with zero problems before we dialed it up and eventually, at 120mph trap speeds we shortened the rods. We have not cracked pistons.
If you end up getting injectors and need help tuning PM me. I can at least get you something to start from. I would keep your eye out for a used set. I got mine for free, just traded stockers and paid $9 to ship the stockers to him. There are alot of guys that buy big injectors not knowing what they are doing or without even having EFI Live and they find that their trucks are not drivable with tons of smoke and high EGTs so they sell or trade their injectors to go back to stock.
I'm not running nitrous Pat. A little spray and I would easily be in the mid 11s. 12.5s were on my initial tuning of the Cheetah, the next week it was 12.4s and I plan to keep going down while still having a single stock CP3, no spray, and stock bottom end. Once I plateau on tuning I'll start builing a motor that can handle another turbo (twins) and spray and once it's done I'll spray the stock one until she goes. I'm not saying that anyone is wrong here - spray obviously also makes a diesel make power more effeciently, so you are not adding PW and timing to get your power. And Pat you have been doing this longer than me and expierimented much more than most so your opinion is very welcome in my books (since it's your site it's not like we have much a choice either
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I'm not running nitrous Pat. A little spray and I would easily be in the mid 11s. 12.5s were on my initial tuning of the Cheetah, the next week it was 12.4s and I plan to keep going down while still having a single stock CP3, no spray, and stock bottom end. Once I plateau on tuning I'll start builing a motor that can handle another turbo (twins) and spray and once it's done I'll spray the stock one until she goes. I'm not saying that anyone is wrong here - spray obviously also makes a diesel make power more effeciently, so you are not adding PW and timing to get your power. And Pat you have been doing this longer than me and expierimented much more than most so your opinion is very welcome in my books (since it's your site it's not like we have much a choice either
)
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If you end up getting injectors and need help tuning PM me. I can at least get you something to start from. I would keep your eye out for a used set. I got mine for free, just traded stockers and paid $9 to ship the stockers to him. There are alot of guys that buy big injectors not knowing what they are doing or without even having EFI Live and they find that their trucks are not drivable with tons of smoke and high EGTs so they sell or trade their injectors to go back to stock.
I'm not running nitrous Pat. A little spray and I would easily be in the mid 11s. 12.5s were on my initial tuning of the Cheetah, the next week it was 12.4s and I plan to keep going down while still having a single stock CP3, no spray, and stock bottom end. Once I plateau on tuning I'll start builing a motor that can handle another turbo (twins) and spray and once it's done I'll spray the stock one until she goes. I'm not saying that anyone is wrong here - spray obviously also makes a diesel make power more effeciently, so you are not adding PW and timing to get your power. And Pat you have been doing this longer than me and expierimented much more than most so your opinion is very welcome in my books (since it's your site it's not like we have much a choice either
So you are saying that bigger droplets ignite more throughly and finish burning more completely than smaller droplets.
Hasn't it puzzled you as to why all the mfr's are working on 5 pulses or more and smaller tips as the HP rating per liter goes up?
I certainly could be wrong, and will play with injectors again. But after watching the parade, I haven't seen what I'd consider proof that big injectors do anything but reduce your mileage and make your HP drop in a Dmax.
I think bigger injectors helped me. Truck revs much better in the higher rpm. Do to reduced PW IMHO. I have removed timing from where I was with stock injectors. My injectors are on the extreme side. It hazes at idle. But that is fine by me. Truck is built to run on kill!
For a street truck I would not go over 45% hones. Once you go big your stuck. You need new tips to go smaller but you can always get small tips honed some more.
For a street truck I would not go over 45% hones. Once you go big your stuck. You need new tips to go smaller but you can always get small tips honed some more.
20% bigger cut right will do it. atomizing the fuel is what you need to make the power with bigger injectors. so bigger is not always better
if you decide to go with them let me know. i have a 40% honed set. there LMM but i think theres no differance between them and LLYs. they have maybe 1-2k on them if your interested.....
smaller holes but more of them
im thinkin same size hole and more of em,
I am not a fan of more holes. No one has proof they really work. My messing with them was not promosing at all. Much happier with what I have seen from bigger holes.
Go for it!
i would love to but..........money is tight and i dont make enough to throw into testing parts or id already have my truck done for 2.8 class
They don't have proof that they work. But there is proof that HUGE holes don't work for a street ride, they smoke at idle. I've seen the vid of your truck and it was great, and they deff worked, but prob wouldn't be the answer for a DD. Maybe there will be a injector with more holes that flows the same but would be more suitable for street use.
iduno maybe there is one out thereI think in the coming years there will be some real advancements with injectors. We have really just hit the tip of the iceburg. Its JMO but I feel that with some time and work more holes could be the hot ticket. Maybe not the nozles that are out there now or maybe them, I don't know. But like I said I see a future of huge impovements