What do you know about injector nozzles

JOHNBOY

< Rocking the Big Single!
Aug 30, 2006
2,159
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Saegertown, Pa
Yes, you are close, but every hole has a resistance, which will decrease your flow rate a bit, that why my nozzles are first EDM and then extrude honed of the amount your desired flow ...
But will it? yes it will

The trouble with ten holes and up is you get the plumes cuting into each other. No room for air.
if your holes nice distributed you have no interverences between each other. There is nothing to do with air ... do you think you get to much pressure in the combustion chamber that the turbo cant deliver the air in there? good atomization is: as small of a diesel drop you may get ==> why? smaller and more drops has more surface area as big drops and less counting. That means that the drop takes more heat up which means lower EGT's ... The volume of the diesel stays the same, wheter we got big or small drops ==> X% of fuel + Y% of Air = volume of the combustion chamber which in f (p of MAP) There are 360* degrees in a circle correct? 360* divided by 10(number of holes) is 36* That is how many degrees a part the holes are not matter what country your in. The plume of fuel comes out as a cone of 20* from what I have seen. That 10* a side. With ten holes the plumes will cut into each other. Making bigger drops. I agree that more surface area is better for combustion. But that suface are needs to be in the have both heat and O2 with it to burn. Just pressure will not ingnite it or else it would burn in the rail. O2 is needed. If the plumes cut each other there is less room for O2. Wasted surface area.

I have messed some ten holes on a LLY (not volkers tips) Who has 10 holes from a blank?. No idea. Call II and ask them. Good luck on getting a straight answer.They ran smooth but did not make great power. The nozzles doesn't make your power, it's your tuning At 2800 rpm they lost almost 60rwhp with no tuning change. The ONLY thing that got the power back was to add timing(6*). That defeats part of the purpose of bigger injectors IMHO. Not my tuning Volker those where junk tips. I wondered what was going on. The tune in that truck was rattley with the stock injectors. With the tens holes they it was not rattling. It was smoother. But it smoked more. If those injectors where worth the darn it should have rattled more in my way of thinking. If you can get more fuel in and atomize it you need less timing. But these tips that was not the case.;) Again these where not your tips. By no means am I talking down about your product!;) They need timing to get them to run. more holes ... more area ... slower injector in low pressure rangeThat makes good sense. These tips need more timing in the high pressure area also.;)
My hones are the opposite. I needed lower timing to get them to run. At idle I needed to actually lowered my pressures. I tryed less pulse but that did not work. Smoked and balance rates where crappy. Lowered my rail pressure to 4000psi and brought my pulse width back up it smoothed out. Once it is warm it hardly somkes at all when idling. To get it to start I actually had to increase my cranking commanded values. Which I found weird but, that is what I did. So far I am very happy with the hones. There are very sensitive to tuning, but the timing I was able to pullout is worth it. Also they engines seems so much smoother above 3500rpm. I am guessing do to less duty cycle that keeps the FICM happy.
If your 80% nozzles need less timing on idle, there is something wrong, when I calculate the pressure equation, you have to deliver less fuel in low pressure (300 - 500bar range)I did not lower my timing at idle.;) I lowered my pressure. I needed to make the event last longer. FWIW my idle timing is 5*. I totally agree with what you say about injectors at lower pressures.
I have pulled as much as 10* out above 2500rpm.:) Truck would not run with more timing. Rattled bad. To much fuel to early. The statement above is about my injectors 80% hones. I talked to you about custom injectors but you offered nothing for the LB7 at the time. Just so you know my tips are not straight up honed stockers. The are EDMed to 7 holes .011 diameter with a 145* inculded angle. Then honed to .0115. 80% bigger than stock. Yes the where blank tips to start with.;)



I don't say that extrude honing is wrong or bad, but it's not my phylosophy of the Common Rail Fuel System ==> I don't need a pressure washer when I have a water hose sprayer hooked up to it ;)

Here a pic from a 50% over extrude honed injector set ... no comment :D
I not saying honeing is all that either. But from the limited testing I have done it gets the results I wanted. Where the ten holes (again not yours) did not.


1800.jpg

That does not suprise me. Honeing can and does very gratly from how does it. Like any thing else the end product is only as good as the care one puts into it. I went straight to Jim at extrudehone. They make the extrudsion hone equepment that everyone else uses. And he had a long line of good references. Serivce was great. Again I went this route because that is really all there was at the time. From what I have seen I am pleased. If you want to make up some ten hole 145* tips for an LB7 by all means send me some.:cool2: But I will not throw timing at them to make them run.
 

BIG DIPPER

New member
Nov 6, 2006
205
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Volker,

The graph you posted....was from the same injector testing each nozzle, or all different injectors as well?
 

Mike

hmmm....
Feb 17, 2007
2,184
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San Angelo, TX
No, one engine set of 8 injectors, red one was my stock calibration injector ...

According to your graph. Does this mean a 10mm3 ( approx. ) difference at 14,500psi ( approx. ). Why test a set like this? Did you balance these injector tips?
 
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