I realize you didn't quote me directly in your respone, but you did quote people who made their response sort of in agreement with what I said. I just want to clarify that my statements were made only to inform Matt that he will not be able to make changes to his tune if it is locked. Since this is a new feature, I wanted to make sure he knew 100% what he was getting. I think it is a bad idea to lock tunes from a user standpoint, but I understand why you do it. As far as your broad sweeping statement about anyone who hasn't been selling tunes for 7 years being a copy/paste tuner :1bird:
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- Thread starter SIKDMAX
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GMC_2002_Dmax
The Still Master
If you were offended it wasn't my intention.......sometimes it's better off when the end user can't make changes, as a professional tuning shop when you send a tune out you know what you sent, if the end user "tinkers" with it and does not inform you it can cause the tuner a lot of problems when trying to improve the tune or correct something in the tune.
I had a call yesterday, the person inquiring had "another tuners" access to his scripts and tune library, ( you fill in the blanks ), he asked me if I send out scripts or tune files and my answer was no. His reply was after he knew he could not do business with me was :
"ok man, was just checking, I am going to be trying to get a business going and wanted to collect as many tunes or scripts as possible before I did it."
So anyone who is selling, sending, or otherwise creating tunes and emailing to anyone be careful, because the quick buck you make is the same quick buck you lose when your hard work is passed on without your knowledge, and it happens to all the tuners who don't protect their work.
I get calls daily, someone has a tune, it doesn't work right, you try to help, then you find out that their buddy bought EFI from Rob or Nick or whomever and they are trying to load that tune in all their buddies trucks but the OS isn't a match or they can't make a script and they want you to help them steal someone Else's work............not happening, at least not me, conversation is over.
So Josh, Why so hostile ??? If you are tuning on the side or sending out free stuff then that is your deal, but I would appreciate that you don't jump to conclusions, I have found that usually when someone thinks you are speaking about them there is truth is what you said.
:1bird::1bird::1bird:
Just returning your kind words, no hard feeling buddy :thumb:
My thoughts on adjusting the tune is more from a convenience aspect, and it would only be very small changes like adjusting timing a little or pulse width a little or changing tire size. It just seems really inconvenient to have to email back and forth, but like I said, I understand why you do it.
I honestly couldn't care less what you or anyone else does in a tune because I tune my truck for what I want it to do and how I like it, and I really don't care what anyone else does or thinks about it. I have shared my tunes for free with several people. It feels good to hear them talk about it in a postive way, but it really won't bother me if they don't like it either because I'm not a business and don't tune for anyone but me. If they have some criticism, I will consider what they say and I may make some changes depending on what their particular problem is. I have also tuned a few trucks locally, but any tuning I do is in person only. If they want something different than what I like, I will change to tune to do what they want, but it is too much of a hassle to tune over email when the person you are working with doesn't know how to datalog or do the most basic things with EFILive.
I know tunes are stolen. That is wrong and unfortunate, but to say most tuners who haven't been doing it as long as you are stealing tunes is just as wrong. For one, I think there are more people who either buy tunes from a reputable tuner or tune their own than there are people who steal tunes to sell. I also think it is unfair to those who have put in the time to learn the software to say that they are "copy/paste" tuners. You might as well say, "I figured this out, but I'm way smarter than any of you guys. You just have to get by by copying what I do." At least that's the way I read it.
I honestly couldn't care less what you or anyone else does in a tune because I tune my truck for what I want it to do and how I like it, and I really don't care what anyone else does or thinks about it. I have shared my tunes for free with several people. It feels good to hear them talk about it in a postive way, but it really won't bother me if they don't like it either because I'm not a business and don't tune for anyone but me. If they have some criticism, I will consider what they say and I may make some changes depending on what their particular problem is. I have also tuned a few trucks locally, but any tuning I do is in person only. If they want something different than what I like, I will change to tune to do what they want, but it is too much of a hassle to tune over email when the person you are working with doesn't know how to datalog or do the most basic things with EFILive.
I know tunes are stolen. That is wrong and unfortunate, but to say most tuners who haven't been doing it as long as you are stealing tunes is just as wrong. For one, I think there are more people who either buy tunes from a reputable tuner or tune their own than there are people who steal tunes to sell. I also think it is unfair to those who have put in the time to learn the software to say that they are "copy/paste" tuners. You might as well say, "I figured this out, but I'm way smarter than any of you guys. You just have to get by by copying what I do." At least that's the way I read it.
GMC_2002_Dmax
The Still Master
Josh,
I am not saying any of the known tuners are copy/pasters, they are not doing it to my tunes as I lock everything, who I am referring to are those that take tunes from others and attempt to resell them as their own work, I have had people call and ask me for help in creating scripts, etc.
I have re-tuned trucks that were not tuned by the "professionals" and the customer stated they were, the shop/person loading the tunes claimed they were a reseller for Nick and when the customer could not get any help from the tuning shop they called Nick on their own, Nick had to inform them that he never dealt with that shop.......it happens to Rob as well I am positive it does........I am sure they both know it goes on, maybe they figure it isn't happening much or not as much as they think.
Everyone knows who does it professionally and legitimately, but there is a growing number of people who are taking the easy way and stealing........it can be logging a tune to try and reverse engineer it by capturing PW, Timing, etc.....but either way it is a growing problem.......one I don't like and take seriously.
If you want to share and or give it away more power to you, it's a free country.......and as far as emails being inconvenient it really isn't.......I always ask when people leave what they plan to drive around in daily and the answer is always the same.........THE BIG TUNE.......:roflmao:
I sometimes follow up weeks later just to see.........same answer......THE BIG TUNE.....:roflmao:.........so it's really about someone being curious and wanting to see what is in the tune more so then really wanting to make changes IMHO.
And those you describe who can't use EFI-Live and are not familiar are the last people you want in a tune file making changes.
I am not saying any of the known tuners are copy/pasters, they are not doing it to my tunes as I lock everything, who I am referring to are those that take tunes from others and attempt to resell them as their own work, I have had people call and ask me for help in creating scripts, etc.
I have re-tuned trucks that were not tuned by the "professionals" and the customer stated they were, the shop/person loading the tunes claimed they were a reseller for Nick and when the customer could not get any help from the tuning shop they called Nick on their own, Nick had to inform them that he never dealt with that shop.......it happens to Rob as well I am positive it does........I am sure they both know it goes on, maybe they figure it isn't happening much or not as much as they think.
Everyone knows who does it professionally and legitimately, but there is a growing number of people who are taking the easy way and stealing........it can be logging a tune to try and reverse engineer it by capturing PW, Timing, etc.....but either way it is a growing problem.......one I don't like and take seriously.
If you want to share and or give it away more power to you, it's a free country.......and as far as emails being inconvenient it really isn't.......I always ask when people leave what they plan to drive around in daily and the answer is always the same.........THE BIG TUNE.......:roflmao:
I sometimes follow up weeks later just to see.........same answer......THE BIG TUNE.....:roflmao:.........so it's really about someone being curious and wanting to see what is in the tune more so then really wanting to make changes IMHO.
And those you describe who can't use EFI-Live and are not familiar are the last people you want in a tune file making changes.
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Oh Boy is this a loaded thread or what! :roflmao:
Your all a bunch of liars no one pro or not built a tune from scratch! Everybody has looked at someone else's work,so get off your high horse already and just admit your trying to have the stealing end with you! :roflmao:
Perhaps with all the past theft being now applied to more current year models perhaps you have tuned or pioneered a fresh tune and aren't looking to contribute back to the pool were you once swam . One thing is for certain a thief is always paranoid and believing (assuming) everyone is a thief as they are a thief themselves! :roflmao:
I'm not saying that locking ones effort is a bad thing ,I just think the justification as to why it's done , is funny as shit ! :roflmao:
Your all a bunch of liars no one pro or not built a tune from scratch! Everybody has looked at someone else's work,so get off your high horse already and just admit your trying to have the stealing end with you! :roflmao:
Perhaps with all the past theft being now applied to more current year models perhaps you have tuned or pioneered a fresh tune and aren't looking to contribute back to the pool were you once swam . One thing is for certain a thief is always paranoid and believing (assuming) everyone is a thief as they are a thief themselves! :roflmao:
I'm not saying that locking ones effort is a bad thing ,I just think the justification as to why it's done , is funny as shit ! :roflmao:
I know of one local guy that has done just that. He came up to me at the track and tried to get me to let him tune my truck. I knew that he had gotten tunes from someone else and was trying to sell them as his own. He had been given tunes for his own personal truck. The person that helped him had no idea he was planning on selling tunes or he would have not helped him.