What did you do at work today?

[Pure Diesel]

Ripped out about a thousand dollars worth of failing black box / proprietary electronics and sensors for an indoor swimming pool A/C. Replaced them with some off the shelf thermostats and humidistat. Seems to work better then before

One thermostat for cooling, one for heating, one for the aux. heating and a humidistat to keep it running if the humidity is above set point. Now I have control over each temp setting, humidity and deadband. Parameters I never had with the factory electronics and programming

Bet you never seen three thermostats hooked up like this before

Nice as-build drawings. :thumb:

 

[2004LB7]

OK, I'll ask it....why does a person need A/C for an indoor pool? Isnt diving into the water to get cool the whole point of a pool?

One may think that but with a heated pool and spa contained indoors, without dehumidification and A/C it would literally rain in there. The temperature would rise above 90* and it would be very uncomfortable. The fixtures, walls, etc would rust and rot. Mold would be everywhere.

I tried just just replacing the air with as much CFM as the unit could provide and while it could keep the temps in check on cold days it couldn't handle the humidity. Not much over 60% RH and the windows fog up.

Being at a hotel, much of the swimmers are the kids with the parents sitting on the side. Even if it didn't bother the swimmers it would for everyone else.

Another sister hotel had to have all the walls ripped out and gutted because of the mold. I would like to avoid that.

Before I started the doors had corrosion on them and the closers where shot from rust. Sprinkler heads had to be replaced. Of course a new unit would be nice but money only trickles up not down in the hotel business

Nice as-build drawings. :thumb:

That was my first attempt. I scribbled it out in about 10 minutes to help me wire it up. While it did work, it never shut off and had no control over humidity.

I need to update it to coincide with the added changes

 

[Pure Diesel]

One may think that but with a heated pool and spa contained indoors, without dehumidification and A/C it would literally rain in there. The temperature would rise above 90* and it would be very uncomfortable. The fixtures, walls, etc would rust and rot. Mold would be everywhere.

I tried just just replacing the air with as much CFM as the unit could provide and while it could keep the temps in check on cold days it couldn't handle the humidity. Not much over 60% RH and the windows fog up.

Being at a hotel, much of the swimmers are the kids with the parents sitting on the side. Even if it didn't bother the swimmers it would for everyone else.

Another sister hotel had to have all the walls ripped out and gutted because of the mold. I would like to avoid that.

Before I started the doors had corrosion on them and the closers where shot from rust. Sprinkler heads had to be replaced. Of course a new unit would be nice but money only trickles up not down in the hotel business



That was my first attempt. I scribbled it out in about 10 minutes to help me wire it up. While it did work, it never shut off and had no control over humidity.

I need to update it to coincide with the added changes

Been in some indoor pool areas and you can tell when the ventilation isn't working right.

When you have harsh environments, the heads are suppose to be covered in a cellophane bag with a thickness of .003 or less so that doesn't happen.

 

[2004LB7]

Been in some indoor pool areas and you can tell when the ventilation isn't working right.

When you have harsh environments, the heads are suppose to be covered in a cellophane bag with a thickness of .003 or less so that doesn't happen.

The new ones are dipped in wax

 

[Chevy1925]

There is a refrigerant solenoid that turns on a reheat coil, basically another condenser right behind the evaporator. This reheats the cold air.

The cooling thermostat and heating thermostat are both set to open a solenoid prior to the TXV which lets the refrigerant flow. This raises the pressure activating a pressure switch turning on the compressor.

The temps are set 2* apart for a dead band or no run condition. At first start it is in cooling but if it drops below set point of the heat setting then the reheat coil solenoid turns on. This runs until it is between the two thermostats set points. If the humidity is above the set point then it keeps the compressor running in cooling mode. This causes the unit to keep switching back and forth between heat and cool to bring the humidity down.

When all are satisfied then the compressor shuts off.

If the temp drops too far then the aux heating thermostat turns on the electric heater to bring it back up. This is really only used in the winter as the fresh intake air can be 40* or colder. In the summer it will likely be running in cooling mode most of the time with maybe 10% heating

It took a while to figure out what all the valves, solenoids, coils and pressure reducers did on this unit. This thing has three condensers. One in line with the evaporator for reheating the air, one outdoor condenser and one refrigerant to water loop to heat the pool water.

I have it set up to dump as much heat into the pool as it can then the rest out doors. When in heating I turn off the outside condenser and only use the pool and reheat coil.

So far its holding temp within a few degrees of the set point. And keeping humidity in check. Before it would swing about 10* with factory controls and humidity was all over the place with no way to change it unless I had them reprogram it. But with as many sensors and electronics that failed it was not an option. It still needs more run time to see but so far I like it.

One may think that but with a heated pool and spa contained indoors, without dehumidification and A/C it would literally rain in there. The temperature would rise above 90* and it would be very uncomfortable. The fixtures, walls, etc would rust and rot. Mold would be everywhere.

I tried just just replacing the air with as much CFM as the unit could provide and while it could keep the temps in check on cold days it couldn't handle the humidity. Not much over 60% RH and the windows fog up.

Being at a hotel, much of the swimmers are the kids with the parents sitting on the side. Even if it didn't bother the swimmers it would for everyone else.

Another sister hotel had to have all the walls ripped out and gutted because of the mold. I would like to avoid that.

Before I started the doors had corrosion on them and the closers where shot from rust. Sprinkler heads had to be replaced. Of course a new unit would be nice but money only trickles up not down in the hotel business



That was my first attempt. I scribbled it out in about 10 minutes to help me wire it up. While it did work, it never shut off and had no control over humidity.

I need to update it to coincide with the added changes

I learned something new today. Thats was really interesting!

 

[Pure Diesel]

The new ones are dipped in wax

:thumb:

 

[2004LB7]

Another indoor pool fact. If you set the humidity too low then you can have swimmers chills when they exit the pool. This is from the flash drying of the skin that occurs from the dry air. This is more important then temperature for comfort. But this is in contrast to non swimmers in the pool room. Higher humidity is uncomfortable as it prevents or reduces ones ability to cool off from sweating. So the normal setting is 60% RH but may need to adjust to suit your needs. Also as many know, temperature plays a big part of RH so you can't try and lower the room temp too much as this will make the load on the unit for dehumidification much larger. So its a balancing act based on comfort and unit capacity

 

[minerigger]

Sat with a hand in the ER to get a wire from a cup brush dug out of his arm. Yay there goes our safety record for the year. Made it 26 days



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[TheBac]

Dang, I had no idea. X2 -- ya learn something new every day. Thanks for that explanation. :thumb:

 

[NC-smokinlmm]

OK, I'll ask it....why does a person need A/C for an indoor pool? Isnt diving into the water to get cool the whole point of a pool?

To control humidity. We use AC on boats pretty much year round for the same reason, keep it from becoming a terrarium.

 

[six5creed]

Missed a decimal place. Put 1.00 instead of .100 oops.

 

[Dozerboy]

Another indoor pool fact. If you set the humidity too low then you can have swimmers chills when they exit the pool. This is from the flash drying of the skin that occurs from the dry air. This is more important then temperature for comfort. But this is in contrast to non swimmers in the pool room. Higher humidity is uncomfortable as it prevents or reduces ones ability to cool off from sweating. So the normal setting is 60% RH but may need to adjust to suit your needs. Also as many know, temperature plays a big part of RH so you can't try and lower the room temp too much as this will make the load on the unit for dehumidification much larger. So its a balancing act based on comfort and unit capacity

Is there an ideal location for a humidistat? I’m kind of curious if there’s a preference. Im thinking a long the lines of warm air rises and cold air sinks. I’m wanting to added dehumidifier to my house and plumb it into the sanitary, so I’m trying to think where I would want it. Maybe close to the return vent...


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[2004LB7]

Is there an ideal location for a humidistat? I’m kind of curious if there’s a preference. Im thinking a long the lines of warm air rises and cold air sinks. I’m wanting to added dehumidifier to my house and plumb it into the sanitary, so I’m trying to think where I would want it. Maybe close to the return vent...


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Close to return vent

 

[Dozerboy]

Close to return vent

Thanks


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[Dozerboy]

Finally got some sun shine and able to bring in some dirt. It’s only been raining for 3 weeks.

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[Pure Diesel]

Is there an ideal location for a humidistat? I’m kind of curious if there’s a preference. Im thinking a long the lines of warm air rises and cold air sinks. I’m wanting to added dehumidifier to my house and plumb it into the sanitary, so I’m trying to think where I would want it. Maybe close to the return vent...


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If you do tie this into your sanitary plumbing, make sure your connection point is above the p-trap. If you've got a laundry sink you can do an in-direct discharge above the sink. If you can run it outside to a garden for the free watering.

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[Dozerboy]

If you do tie this into your sanitary plumbing, make sure your connection point is above the p-trap. If you've got a laundry sink you can do an in-direct discharge above the sink. If you can run it outside to a garden for the free watering.

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Thanks that’s great idea and the laundry room was was even my ideal location.


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[Fingers]

Unison Rings...

.. Lots of Unison Rings.

 

[JoshH]

Looks like they're missing some important features. oke:

 

[Fingers]

Pushy SOB