well... i finally get to

malibu795

misspeelleerr
Apr 28, 2007
8,236
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what do you mean it will look better than my 'fiasco'? That makes no sense and is totally unrelated.. My fiasco was inadequate parts failure. I didnt mess something up on assembly. Your fiasco was you put two flippin pistons in backwards, and even after people clued you in, you left it that way, plain and simple.

You said initially you didnt have an EGT probe hooked up.

1700* is less than I have done? I have twins. ;)

i did hook it up... couldnt get it to work... shall i get the quote?
i was out of time and money waiting on guys shop that took 3 weeks to do what was pormised in 5 days. shall i get that too?

they still arent "backwards" they are in the opposite bank. which is ALOT different then "BACKWARDS"

BTW im talking before you had twins

backwards that engine would not have made it to ohio.
 
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ripmf666

Active member
Sep 20, 2006
15,123
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Wentzville Mo
they are not backwards nor upside down henry

Adam we had the same trouble with a lb7 we got. 4 of the piston were swapped to the wrong side to the wrong offset so the in backwards. Yes it will run this way. If someone was to install them upside down it would not run and oil holes would not line up.
 

delong_1

<< my work
Dec 5, 2008
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so, for an update the rod and main bearings are trashed. the cylinder bores are in way worse shape than my stock block's andway more wear on piston skirts. :rolleyes:
 

JJLEODIRTYMAX

Time to build my Engine!!
Sep 5, 2010
23
0
1
What's your course of action? Are you going to rebuild? Can you use that block or do you have to use your stock block? sorry to hear about the damage!! hope it works out for you:).
 

malibu795

misspeelleerr
Apr 28, 2007
8,236
550
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in the buckeye state
so, for an update the rod and main bearings are trashed. the cylinder bores are in way worse shape than my stock block's andway more wear on piston skirts. :rolleyes:

wish i had a dia bore gauge when i assembled it to know piston to wall clearance.

main and rods were .0022-.0025

i have NO idea what So cal had the piston to wall clearance setup as. that would be Guys info and what he spec'd for the machine shop to build too.

piston to wall clearance would **** skirts and clyinder wall faster then anything else.

that is IF guy can remeber what he had the machine shop cut too.

probly use the wrong clearance spec.
since we were orignaly too use new mahle pistons vs oem cast that requires more piston clearance

sorry to hear about the loss
 

IOWA LLY

Yes, its really me
Feb 23, 2007
2,275
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wish i had a dia bore gauge when i assembled it to know piston to wall clearance.

main and rods were .0022-.0025

i have NO idea what So cal had the piston to wall clearance setup as. that would be Guys info and what he spec'd for the machine shop to build too.

piston to wall clearance would **** skirts and clyinder wall faster then anything else.

that is IF guy can remeber what he had the machine shop cut too.

probly use the wrong clearance spec.
since we were orignaly too use new mahle pistons vs oem cast that requires more piston clearance

sorry to hear about the loss



So now your trying to blame the motor being screwed up on So-Cal Diesel?:rolleyes:
 

malibu795

misspeelleerr
Apr 28, 2007
8,236
550
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in the buckeye state
So now your trying to blame the motor being screwed up on So-Cal Diesel?:rolleyes:

if machine work related yes... assemble no.

guy had the block for ~3 weeks

orignal build was .020 oem cast pistons... some in the shop sent new coated mahle ..020 to the machine shop in which everything was balanced and spec for those mahle pistons vs the oem cast pistons i had asked for... when i got there i told guy thats now what i asked for nor what we talked about... he said ok that my bust i will give those(mahle) at the cost for the oem cast pistons.
then find the gouge was still in #1 cylinder. everything come back off my truck to go .040 over.
if you read thats 3 different pistons with 3 different spec for piston to wall clearance
and main and rod journals thats balance isuse.. R/A was with the .020 mahle coated pistons.. when we went with the .040 cast guy said he would re-balance he would cut the .040 down to weigh the same as the .020 mahle and i deffered to his experience


from selling him a running engine in april to 6 months later and it trashed
lots of question there?
were pistons swapped form were i put them?
rods swapped?
are all the holes ****ed? that would say machine issue
 

delong_1

<< my work
Dec 5, 2008
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you sure are quick to blame others when, and i double checked before i would say this but 6, yes 6 pistons where not in the correct bank.

all i have really done to it is pull the heads to put my heads on it. it had a knock that was intermitent since the day it started, which makes me wonder the real reason you sold it. If i had know about this thread and more about you i would have never considered buying this motor. By the time i saw this thread the motor was on its way, and you didnt mention any of this until i mentioned pulling the heads. pretty shady to me......

I can/will post pics of how everything looks disasembled if you think that i am making this up.
 

malibu795

misspeelleerr
Apr 28, 2007
8,236
550
113
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in the buckeye state
you sure are quick to blame others when, and i double checked before i would say this but 6, yes 6 pistons where not in the correct bank.

all i have really done to it is pull the heads to put my heads on it. it had a knock that was intermitent since the day it started, which makes me wonder the real reason you sold it. If i had know about this thread and more about you i would have never considered buying this motor. By the time i saw this thread the motor was on its way, and you didnt mention any of this until i mentioned pulling the heads. pretty shady to me......

I can/will post pics of how everything looks disasembled if you think that i am making this up.
blame?!?!? like i said assmebly related i will take the blame.. machine work related thats guys machine shop.

hmm 6.. my picture say 2
when i had the engine there was no knock period.. asked the guys that drag raced with me and sled pulled. you were the first person to open that engine up after i assembled it in 08

dont know what you did when it was apart. intermitent knock? sounds like something was left behind.
boubled check everything right? what were the following..........
piston clearance spec?
journal clearance specs?
swap the pistons around?

reason i got sold/parted out my truck that i held onto and stuck with it after i lost the engine to injector in 07 because looking at filing chapter 13 and want the good stuff to go to a good home instead of some bankrupcy auction. that truck sat more then ran..
 

Trippin

SoCal Diesel
Aug 10, 2006
663
2
0
It's a pretty simple process. Std bore is 4.055. The pistons are manufactured to fit in a 4.055 bore.

If you bore the block +.020 you finish the cylinders at 4.075.

Likewise for +.040, finish the cylinders at 4.095.

For a high heat application we normally add an extra .001 to the finished bore size to allow for additional expansion.

If I recall correctly Adam's original motor broke a crank and the cracked the main webs in the block. Someone with more time to spare than I, can probably find the original posts.

Adam found a used block that had burnt a piston and due to $$ concerns wanted to re-use a set of used std pistons. The block was too badly damaged to use std bore pistons again and knowing $$ was tight I made him a deal on some +.020 and all the machine work.

We bored and honed the block to +.020 and during final wash discovered a divot in one of the cylinders with the burnt piston hadn't completely cleaned up.

Adam was under some sort of deadline to get this engine assembled and move out of CA, we had a discussion about why he couldn't assemble the engine this way, I apologized for the delay and informed him the bore isn't right and would not leave my shop until it was right.

So we bored/honed the block to use +.040. The bore size in the block should measure 4.095 to 4.096 with out wear.

The pin bore in a cast Duramax piston is offset by .030. This is to reduce side load on the skirts of the piston.
Installing pistons in a reversed direction would change the offset by a total of .060 resulting in additional side loading of the skirt and additional cylinder/piston wear.

I stand behind the machine work 100%.

I can't control the cleanliness of the assembly or the conditions in which it was run. Did the air cleaner do an effective job of keeping debris from being ingested into the engine? Was it removed for the occasional drag race or sled pull?

Guy
 

delong_1

<< my work
Dec 5, 2008
1,282
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Arvada, CO
I only put a max of 3,000 miles on this motor, the air filter was always on. even at the track. i had changed the oil and filter after install, and 2 other times looking for any material in the pan trying to establish a reason for the knock.

Guy, i was not in any way saying you were to blame. If you took it that way i appologize.
 

Trippin

SoCal Diesel
Aug 10, 2006
663
2
0
I only put a max of 3,000 miles on this motor, the air filter was always on. even at the track. i had changed the oil and filter after install, and 2 other times looking for any material in the pan trying to establish a reason for the knock.

Guy, i was not in any way saying you were to blame. If you took it that way i appologize.

I didn't take it that way at all. I had assumed you didn't use it much before taking it apart.

I was wondering what the motor went through before you got it.
 

malibu795

misspeelleerr
Apr 28, 2007
8,236
550
113
42
in the buckeye state
It's a pretty simple process. Std bore is 4.055. The pistons are manufactured to fit in a 4.055 bore.

If you bore the block +.020 you finish the cylinders at 4.075.

Likewise for +.040, finish the cylinders at 4.095.
yes that is tradition over sizes... so you saying that a 4.095 bore runs a ~.001" piston clearance!?!?!?! i know the .060 hyperpnuetestic over BBC piston i put in a BBC had a clearance spec of .0015-.0035"
For a high heat application we normally add an extra .001 to the finished bore size to allow for additional expansion.

If I recall correctly Adam's original motor broke a crank and the cracked the main webs in the block. Someone with more time to spare than I, can probably find the original posts.
yep lost the injector first weeknd of oct 07 right before texas diesel nationals.. made 6galon of fuel and oil mix JD came up and brought me oil to change on the side of the road then followed me back to santa clarita I5/sr126 are loaded the truck up on the trailer and towed it home... i call pat that night while siting almost to garmon CA he siad it was safe to drive all the way home like such... you were working on you stroker kit and asked if you could have my ripped crank for inspection... then joked:confused: about welding up the web and selling it back into service got the dealer to instal 8 new inectors at the same time the 126 valley and your area was burning chased water in oil problems after that including head gaskets and water pumps... then 12-24-07 lost the engine.
Adam found a used block that had burnt a piston and due to $$ concerns wanted to re-use a set of used std pistons. The block was too badly damaged to use std bore pistons again and knowing $$ was tight I made him a deal on some +.020 and all the machine work.
yep foudn a used 06 lbz block, cank, cam that had split a piston.. the plan was to see if it was possilbe to save the std size bore delip the piston and reuse them pending on depth of gouge in the wall. i droped it out monday(10-25-08) morning prior to hollowen 08.. it it was to be bored out you were to use cast pisotns.. it was to get main studs, head studs, keyed crank and camshaft, balanced, mains honed/bored, and block deck/squared up... asked if you woudl be able to get it done by cob friday... you said yes, i asked if it doesn there goign to be anyone here to work on it while you are at sema.. you said yes the one or 2 guys were staying behidn to take care of orders and loose ends... we shook hands and i left.. tues day you called me said need to go .020 over gouge was .010 deep. i gave the ok
We bored and honed the block to +.020 and during final wash discovered a divot in one of the cylinders with the burnt piston hadn't completely cleaned up.
yep got a call 11-11-08 that everything was ready... after it sat in the shop for ~2 weeks and we found the gouge was still there after it was loaded up in the back of my truck.. and inculding the piston the were not to be in the build(new mahle hyper coated pistons with vavle relieves) in which you said that the balance was difference on them bewteen oem cast .020 and the mahle hyper pistons..
Adam was under some sort of deadline to get this engine assembled and move out of CA, we had a discussion about why he couldn't assemble the engine this way, I apologized for the delay and informed him the bore isn't right and would not leave my shop until it was right.
between the wrong pistons, 2 week delay, then finding a .010 gouge still in the wall...after it was loaded on my truck... was VERY disapointing.. so off the block came. asked what you were goign to do with pistons.. you said you had .040 cast pistons... i asked about rebalanceing.. you weighed the .020 and then .040 and found a substanial weight difference. asked if you were going to rebalance... you said no we will cut the .040 down to weigh the same as the .020s... too bad it did leave the shop wrong.. gouge was still there. when assembled those soem one couldnt keep one word and blamed Sema.. like it came and did a sneak attack on your business... and you werent ready for it... thuse why it took almsot 3 weeks.. which is the time i told you i had to get the machine work and anything else that went wrong fixed before i head back east...

So we bored/honed the block to use +.040. The bore size in the block should measure 4.095 to 4.096 with out wear.

The pin bore in a cast Duramax piston is offset by .030. This is to reduce side load on the skirts of the piston.
Installing pistons in a reversed direction would change the offset by a total of .060 resulting in additional side loading of the skirt and additional cylinder/piston wear.
if this is so importent... then why are the new aftermarket pistons have 0 offset? still never answer that question
I stand behind the machine work 100%.
so whats piston to bore clearance? if all 8 cylinders are shot and all bearings are shot... from improper clearances... like i told you when i asembled it i had low .002X" clearance on the mains and rods
I can't control the cleanliness of the assembly or the conditions in which it was run. Did the air cleaner do an effective job of keeping debris from being ingested into the engine? Was it removed for the occasional drag race or sled pull?

Guy

with the new engine i ran a wix paper element all the time even when dyno'd, drag raced, sled pulled and was never ran while it was removed.
block, bores, journals, mains, pistons were wiped down with brake cleaner and lint free rages then soaked in 15-40 engine oil when assmebled

if you honestly believe that piston to wall clearance on a dmax is .0010" something wrong especialy with your back ground.

i built a 468 BBC over the winter piston dia ranged from 4.309-4.311 spec for clearance was .0015-.0035" my avg clearance was .0019" ranging from .0018-.0020.. these is specs for a hyperpnuetetic piston... cast is almost double that!

like i said .0010" clearance is tooooooooo tight and of all people you shoudl know this...... right? since you are/were working with mahle to make fordge and oem cast DD replacements

and how many weekend builderd like myself have a dial bore guage or the stand to properly set one up siting in their garage/shop?

as henery pointed out early in the thread.... the main/rod clearance were on the tight side but within oem spec

did the machine shop adjust bore spec to go form a fordge/hyper psiton at .020 to a oem cast piston @ .040?????? if not the engien was doomed before it was even sent to me :mad:
i asked about ring gap... said they were not file to fit... the mean gaps were .017".
if thats too tight it will kill the piston crown.. and destroy the engine. esepcaily if wick was turned up...

piston wieghts? you said they were never cut down out side of deliping them..
if stock protusion is .013-.017 on a virgin deck.. then why were mine .0055-.0065 on a deck that had beed cut .007":confused:
heres the threads
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186182
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186319
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=199726
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=204865
 

JoshH

Daggum farm truck
Staff member
Vendor/Sponsor
Feb 14, 2007
13,712
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Texas!!!
You should really give up. You posted picture proof of incorrect assembly. Who knows what else you did wrong. Quit trying to blame Guy. It sounds like he was trying to help you out, and now you're trying to drag him through the mud. Good job...
 

malibu795

misspeelleerr
Apr 28, 2007
8,236
550
113
42
in the buckeye state
You should really give up. You posted picture proof of incorrect assembly. Who knows what else you did wrong. Quit trying to blame Guy. It sounds like he was trying to help you out, and now you're trying to drag him through the mud. Good job...

like i said i take the blame for assemble.

not machine work.

he did try to help me out.............. after not keeping his word, settign me up with wrong pistons, and now possible imporper piston to wall clearnace and balance issues?
if it was purely assemblly wrong only the pistons that were backward/upside down wouldbe damage... correct? but acording to nate ALL including the correctly installed ones are trashed

is that not what nate said josh? all piston and journals are trashed?