Valvesprings

durallymax

New member
Apr 26, 2008
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Under The Hood
Need an opinion on these.

I talked to guy yesterday and got his opinion on using beehive springs like the ones he sells over a dual spring setup, and im kinda leanign towards these.

Got my info from curtis last night and he sells a dual spring kit. However i dont have his opinion on on over the other. His spring with Ti retainers is $150 bucks cheaper than the beehive kit from guy, but im still kinda leaning toward the beehives.
 

S Phinney

Active member
Aug 15, 2008
4,008
18
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Quncy, Fl
I'm running the duals from DPR. From what I understand the beehives are really a small block Ford spring that is being used for the Duramax.
 

Accelerator

On a Time Out
Mar 12, 2009
242
0
0
Dual springs are more consistant and will give you a better saftey margin incase of a broken spring. they offer more spring psi over the lifting curve for more accuracy at high RPM though they are a bit heavy-er also they are cheaper.

Listen to Curtis, he builds the fastest d-max's around. Bar none!
 

juddski88

Freedom Diesel
Jul 1, 2008
4,655
120
63
Chesterfield, Mass.
I think this is a great option, didn't even know about them, has he worked on eliminating the springs all together?;) if so i would rather have none:cool2:

On Edit: I am an idiot who didnt know what the purpose of rollers were in the first place :O
 
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durallymax

New member
Apr 26, 2008
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Under The Hood
knowing curtis if there was a way he would find it :rofl:

I see he has some interesting parts including glow plug deletes, and twin CP3 kits that move the factory CP3 out of the valley.
 

othrgrl

Diesel Addiction Owner
Mar 10, 2008
2,151
4
38
Wilmington NC
www.mydieseladdiction.com
Dual springs are more consistant and will give you a better saftey margin incase of a broken spring. they offer more spring psi over the lifting curve for more accuracy at high RPM though they are a bit heavy-er also they are cheaper.

Listen to Curtis, he builds the fastest d-max's around. Bar none!

So what times have they run? I know Nasty has run some 10s, and the Mustang has as well. Last I checked there are DMax's in the 9s that don't have any DPR parts. Not trying to knock Curtis or DPR but commercials don't typically do so well around here without all the facts to back them up.
 

McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
11,249
26
38
64
Norco CA
www.mcratracing.com
Dual springs are more consistant and will give you a better saftey margin incase of a broken spring. they offer more spring psi over the lifting curve for more accuracy at high RPM though they are a bit heavy-er also they are cheaper.

Listen to Curtis, he builds the fastest d-max's around. Bar none!

That's why all high RPM engines use double springs.

Wait. They don't.

Which trucks has Curtis built? :confused:
 

JOHNBOY

< Rocking the Big Single!
Aug 30, 2006
2,159
0
0
Saegertown, Pa
Single springs are fine for what we do. Dual spring are more of high RPM thing. Curtis uses dual springs because his stuff is all originally came from his boat program. Dual springs add and an extra marging of safety. But the also add weight. As far as accuracy over the curve I would like to see proof of that. Two spring equals twice as much stuff to fail IMHO. I have run Guys Beehives and Ti retainers to the limits of the LB7 electronics RPM and had no spring issues.
 

Accelerator

On a Time Out
Mar 12, 2009
242
0
0
Why, the sudden defence? Im just stating what i believe to be true.

Curtis has built THE fastest D-max, The mormon missile,(360+MPH) among many other's and they all use the same stuff, that i know of.

Mormon missile
Nasty girl
Greg houge's dragster
Ibedmaxin (Wade) 1200hp d-max
Dirtymax
Buck spruill?
and many more im forgeting.

But that's not the point.

Point is why should we use dual springs?

Yes single springs are lighter, but it's a fact that in a charged application they can not hold big amounts of cylinder psi/Boost AND RPM. This is why EVERY blown, turbo, and top fuel car in the country relies on dual or triple springs.

Simply put (dual springs) will controll the valve open/close much more accuratly, which will lead to more HP and saftey. So, to me it just makes more sence.

For the record i would use behives, no problem, but only in a 4800RPM/75lbs of boost and less engine. JMO:D
 
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McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
11,249
26
38
64
Norco CA
www.mcratracing.com
Why, the sudden defence? Im just stating what i believe to be true.

Curtis has built THE fastest D-max, The mormon missile,(360+MPH) among many other's and they all use the same stuff, that i know of.

Mormon missile
Nasty girl
Greg houge's dragster
Ibedmaxin (Wade) 1200hp d-max
Dirtymax
Buck spruill?
and many more im forgeting.

But that's not the point.

Point is why should we use dual springs?

Yes single springs are lighter, but it's a fact that in a charged application they can not hold big amounts of cylinder psi/Boost AND RPM. This is why EVERY blown, turbo, and top fuel car in the country relies on dual or triple springs.

Simply put (dual springs) will controll the valve open/close much more accuratly, which will lead to more HP and saftey. So, to me it just makes more sence.

For the record i would use behives, no problem, but only in a 4800RPM/75lbs of boost and less engine. JMO:D

So at what RPM did you float your valves on your Duramax?
 

McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
11,249
26
38
64
Norco CA
www.mcratracing.com
...Curtis has built THE fastest D-max, ...

Yes, he's certainly a bunch smarter than those dumb ass Dodge guys who got their asses handed to them, then decided to switch to Duramax power, since all the smart guys are running Duramaxes.

Problem with those goat boys is that just switching engines didn't up their IQ, so they are just as clueless except now they have 2 more pistons... ;)
 

Mike L.

Got Sheep?
Staff member
Vendor/Sponsor
Aug 12, 2006
15,681
232
63
Fullerton CA
Why, the sudden defence? Im just stating what i believe to be true.

Curtis has built THE fastest D-max, The mormon missile,(360+MPH) among many other's and they all use the same stuff, that i know of.

Mormon missile
Nasty girl
Greg houge's dragster
Ibedmaxin (Wade) 1200hp d-max
Dirtymax
Buck spruill?
and many more im forgeting.

But that's not the point.

Point is why should we use dual springs?

Yes single springs are lighter, but it's a fact that in a charged application they can not hold big amounts of cylinder psi/Boost AND RPM. This is why EVERY blown, turbo, and top fuel car in the country relies on dual or triple springs.

Simply put (dual springs) will controll the valve open/close much more accuratly, which will lead to more HP and saftey. So, to me it just makes more sence.

For the record i would use behives, no problem, but only in a 4800RPM/75lbs of boost and less engine. JMO:D

There is something familiar about you. Missing rod caps and main caps come to mind but I just can't place the name. It'll come to me. :D
 

Trippin

SoCal Diesel
Aug 10, 2006
663
2
0
I guess there is always the bigger/more is better mentality, so it is easy for some to believe that 2 springs are better than 1. However in this case less is more. :D

For my first few Dmax cylinder head builds I used dual springs. Actually they were aftermarket Toyota springs, it was all that was commercially available to fit the Dmax package at that time. There were some small block Ford beehive springs out there, but none with the amount of pressure/rate I feel we needed to control our valve train, given the increased boost and rpm. I could have stayed with the dual setup, but I felt there was a better solution to be had. A single beehive spring, with the same pressure as the duals but with considerably less mass. Leveraging my prior relationship with the valve spring manufacturers (FYI, the cam companies don't make valve springs) I designed a spring just for the Duramax and now have them built specifically for SoCal Diesel, usually in runs of 5,000 pcs. A premium steel wire that is ovate, not round.

I did a considerable amount of research into valve springs and valve train assemblies in the mid 1990s. This research and the products that resulted from it, constituted the basis for my first U.S. Patent. #5546899. This research continues to this day.

In a nutshell, valve springs have mass, as does the valve, retainer, keepers, pushrods, rocker arms, lifters etc. More mass in the valve train requires more spring pressure to control this mass. More spring pressure results in higher wear of the entire system.

The answer is to add enough spring pressure to control the valve train without adding any additional mass. In fact reducing mass would have the same affect as adding spring pressure as far as control goes, without the additional wear.

Stock LB7 spring and retainer is 86.2g.

Stock LLY/LBZ/LMM spring and retainer is 80.5g.

Dual spring assembly with a Titanium retainer weighs approx. 84.5g.

My beehive spring with the same pressure as the duals and Titanium retainer weighs 55.5g. This represents almost 35% weight savings over the duals.

As you can see the dual spring system will float the valves far earlier in the rpm range than the beehive system, because the additional mass of the dual spring requires far more pressure just to control it's own mass.

This trend of lighter mass, more efficient valve springs is being followed in all forms of motorsports racing.

The GM LS series of engines is a perfect example of production engines using the beehive spring concept with great success.

Comparing pricing, our kits feature 32 springs, 32 retainers, 32 valve seals, and 32 hardened OD spring cups which replace the cheezy sheet metal factory shim.

As far as practical application goes, our springs have seen 300mph at the Salt Flats, 180 mph and 7 second blasts in the 1/4 mile and countless 5-6,000 rpm sled pulls and many 1200hp dyno pulls. I'll let you draw your own conclusions from there.................:D

Hope this helps,

Guy
 
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JOHNBOY

< Rocking the Big Single!
Aug 30, 2006
2,159
0
0
Saegertown, Pa
Why, the sudden defence? Im just stating what i believe to be true.

Curtis has built THE fastest D-max, The mormon missile,(360+MPH) among many other's and they all use the same stuff, that i know of.

Mormon missile
Nasty girl
Greg houge's dragsterGregs Dragter still has a stock LLY longblock in it. I talked with Greg for over an hour Monday
Ibedmaxin (Wade) 1200hp d-max
DirtymaxThey ran 9s with an engine they assemmbled at there shop. G and J Diesel
Buck spruill?Agian I beleve this engine was assembled by them. The Spruills know a thing or two about the Dmax.
and many more im forgeting.

But that's not the point.

Point is why should we use dual springs?

Yes single springs are lighter, but it's a fact that in a charged application they can not hold big amounts of cylinder psi/Boost AND RPM. This is why EVERY blown, turbo, and top fuel car in the country relies on dual or triple springs.

Simply put (dual springs) will controll the valve open/close much more accuratly, which will lead to more HP and saftey. So, to me it just makes more sence.

For the record i would use behives, no problem, but only in a 4800RPM/75lbs of boost and less engine. JMO:D

Smells like a Wade. Dont you think Mike?:rofl:
 

Redbone

but this one goes to 11
May 1, 2008
261
0
0
Indy, IN
Not really an opinion one way or the other, just a couple of comments and observations.

With the light weight of our valves, and the relatively low RPM we turn, I can't believe much more than a single spring is required (I'm forgetting about our 12 pound lifters here.:)). We might be twisting these things tighter and tighter, but we're nowhere near small block gasser range.

Do the DPR duals run a damper? Duals that don't run a damper will cause the valve to rotate as the inner and outer springs resonate at different RPM. The retainers will actually wear on the outer edges when this happens. I've seen retainers you could shave with.

Titanium retainers are great for weight reduction, but they can be a real treat to break loose from the keepers on a rebuild.