LB7: Vacuum Tested Return Lines - Still making oil?

Jacob2650

Go Fast Guru Synthetics
Hello,
I'm Jacob Anderson with Go Fast Guru Synthetics.

I have a 2002 LB7 dmax that is having serious oil dilliution issues.

I had driven nearly 180,000 miles, and started losing prime on the HP pump, so I took it to a shop, with a used, but newer HP pump, and asked that they replace it. Instead they decided that it had to be the injectors, even though all showed to be +-4 on balance rates, and return rates less than 20 ml.
After switching out all injectors, this Shop (Midland Diesel, Fargo ND) told me that because the CP3 pump was bad, (apparently couldn't test it without replacing all the injectors, I was told) they wouldn't warranty their work.
Since having the vehicle back home, it immediately started making fuel, and continued to lose prime. I spoke with a few people, Don@Oregon Injection, and Steve@Competition Diesel, and another local guy I found here in Fargo, Jack Christianson@JC Auto. All of these guys said to check the return lines for the fuel, and that a blockage in the tank would cause the pump to lose prime.
I ran air into the system, till it burbled into the tank. This fixed the priming issue, So I assume the prime was loss due to a blockage in the tank. (probably the sock) I have yet to drop the tank...but I will, after I figure out this major fuel leak.
I pulled the return lines off the head, and checked vacuum on each bank...neither would hold. So, I took valve covers off, bought new seal kits for the return lines. When I was taking things apart, there were a lot of stripped bolts. I replaced all the upper valve cover bolts, Midland Diesel had stripped almost every one of them. Of course putting the worst ones in the most inconvenient locations as to not be seen by any customer, or the shop manager.
There were washers stacked on top of one another on the banjo fittings, and everything on the left bank was about hand tight..(broke loose with the torque wrench on 9 ft/lbs). On the right bank everything was impact tight, I thought I was going to break the banjo bolts, getting them off. (torqued at over 40 ft/lbs) Ended up having to replace the return lines, as well as the banjo washers, in order to get both sides to hold vacuum. Now both returns will hold 18in hg for more than 20 mins.
I put a fresh oil change in, and went for a drive. Normal city driving, it maintained normal oil pressure. I took it out on the hiway, and started losing oil pressure fast. After 30 miles at 70 (~2100rpm) I could feel the pistons throwing liquid around...Shaking the truck. I very quickly routed myself home. Upon arrival to the garage, I had oil spewed all over the underside of the truck, and when I pulled the dipstick, I only see Diesel fuel. In less than 25 miles, I went from having brand new series 3000 Amsoil oil, to having nothing in there.
I don't know what else could cause that large of a leak?
I called Oregon Injection back, and Don thinks that the CP3 pump I used (junkyard rollover with 5k on the truck, Pulled the pump myself, everything seemed in great shape) may have been sitting too long and the seals dried out, causing them to leak excessive amounts of fuel into the crankcase..?

Upon going down the hiway, it was like something popped...when I first got on it, everything seemed normal. At around 50 miles things went dramatically bad...doing the paper towel test upon arrival. I see no oil...just fuel, and a few tiny metallic flakes, as it drips off the dipstick. I'm extremely frustrated and about to run out of money, I've sunk over 5k in it, and still isn't fixed.

When I got the truck, it was a MN DOT vehicle, it still starts everytime, and runs great. It seems I'm missing something?
Is there anything that could have been sabotaged upon Injection replacement?..It was very obvious someone did a horrible job on the return lines, and with all the bolts being messed up...they obviously wanted it back for more labor money.
I'm sick of having to sink money into a vehicle that was the most reliable vehicle in my Fleet, prior to it being rolled into MidLand Diesel.
PLEASE HELP!!
 

jppowersports

New member
Feb 9, 2014
11
0
0
I would pull the injectors out and check those out along with seeing if they double stacked the copper washers in the cups. Maybe a cup is loose too? Maybe they reused the copper washers?

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
 

Aaron@LDS

Goin' Broke!
Vendor/Sponsor
Jan 19, 2013
95
0
0
Saint Johnsville, NY
The ONLY things that can leak internally are...

1.Return lines and seals (You already checked and ruled out with a vacuum test)
2.High pressure lines under the cover (Cracked or pitted enough to leak, or just not tight enough)
3.A cracked injector body
4.The CP3 seal

With a leak that bad you should be able to see it using some "fuel dye" and a blacklight. You can remove the oil fill neck tube and you should be able to see if the CP3 seal is leaking especially with the dye and a blacklight. You can run the engine with the covers off and watch for the leak at the lines and injectors also. If you don't notice anything at idle have someone increase rpm so fuel pressure climbs enough to see the leak.
 

PACougar

Active member
Jun 27, 2012
2,105
1
36
41
El Dorado Hills, Ca
I had a set of injectors come from Industrial Injection once that didn't have any of the nozzles tightened down on the injector bodies. They all leaked into the top of the head and I had the exact same problem you're having. It was a real bitch to track down because nothing was actually broken.
 

Aaron@LDS

Goin' Broke!
Vendor/Sponsor
Jan 19, 2013
95
0
0
Saint Johnsville, NY
I had a set of injectors come from Industrial Injection once that didn't have any of the nozzles tightened down on the injector bodies. They all leaked into the top of the head and I had the exact same problem you're having. It was a real bitch to track down because nothing was actually broken.

Speaking of this situation ^^^...

Do you know what injectors were installed by the shop?
 

Jacob2650

Go Fast Guru Synthetics
They bought Bosch Remans from Bosch, Or so they said. When I go to the shop to pick up the truck, they told me my old ones had just been sent back to Bosch. I asked for them, because I wanted them for cores in case any of these others were bad.

Is there any way to test the injector bodies without removal?

I had it running with the valve covers off, and saw no leaks on the HP side.

I'll pull the fill tube tonight and see if I can identify if the pump seal is leaking...
Will it just be running down the front of the block right here..?

Can the oil pan be removed with the engine in the truck??
I want to make sure my oil pump isn't plugged with trash too, I know I had little bits of Silicone from cleaning up the valve covers...I wouldn't think that'd be enough to do anything but maybe fill up the filter. But if it's easily removed...might as well.
It looks like engine will have to come out for that...Has anyone here had their pan off, in the truck..?
 

Jacob2650

Go Fast Guru Synthetics
I ran it with the valve covers off...unplugged the fpr...no leaking from around the injectors, or the return lines. I even put smoke up to each fitting, and it wasn't being pushed around by any media leaking.

Haven't found where I can get fuel dye or a LED light, checking the CP3 under the oil fill tube next...
Any Ideas?
 

Aaron@LDS

Goin' Broke!
Vendor/Sponsor
Jan 19, 2013
95
0
0
Saint Johnsville, NY
This is what Im referring to for the dye.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/ac...ansmission-dye/_/N-255s?itemIdentifier=210225

Sometimes it comes with a "kit" that includes the UV pen and glasses.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/ac...-265k?itemIdentifier=424631&_requestid=950865

This can be purchased at AutoZone or similar auto parts stores. And it's the best way to detect the leak for sure. Ive seen several leaks that go undetected without the dye kit. The dye will show you the leak at the CP3 if you remove the oil fill neck and look for any signs of UV dye spraying out.
 

Jacob2650

Go Fast Guru Synthetics
Ok Aaron, got some dye, put it in, pulled the oil tube...not seeing anything splash out.
How long would it take to be there if I put it in the fuel filter?

The area right around the nut is SUPER clean...like it may have been leaking there.

Otherwise it's back to pulling the covers and looking for dye around Injector bodies?

Loosing prime again too...going to drop the tank and clean or replace the sock as well as clean the tank out...That should solve that issue.

Does a FASS system have a pump involved?
If I put one on will I need to buy a lift pump too?

Thanks for all your suggestions and information...It is very much appreciated!!:thumb: