Teens Drivers at home? Read this please.

[McRat]

Do you have a Teen Driver in your house? Your kids, your grandkids, or other family teens? This is something you should take the time to read. Seriously. CLIFF NOTES at end for those who want a quick read. Read the Cliff Notes at least.

Doug Herbert was a Top Fuel Dragster hotshoe in 2008. He had a 17 year old and 12 year old son 8 years ago. He was on the road, and gets a call from home from his wife. "Our sons have been in an accident. I think they are both dead." His 17 year-old Jon was driving too fast with his brother James in the car, headed for breakfast at McDonald's, but lost control of the car near their home, and went head on into an H2 Hummer. What was left of the Mazda car Jon was driving was not identifiable.

http://www.mydeathspace.com/…/Jon_Herbert_(17)_and_his_brot…

Doug Herbert did not sit on his hands, blame the cars, or any other useless actions. He decided to make his sons lives matter. He started a non-profit organization to try and keep other people's teens alive. His goal was to train teens how to handle emergency driving situations, not the cheezy driver's ed teens get to teach them how to just obey traffic laws.

What he started was B.R.A.K.E.S. A nationwide program to teach teens how to avoid accidents, and how to control a car that is out-of-control, something most adults don't do well at.

https://putonthebrakes.org/home

Yesterday, I took my son Thomas (15.75 yo) to a BRAKES class in Pomona, California. They used the parking lot near the dragstrip. Here's what I found:

Your kid should have 30 hours behind the wheel already. This is not for kids who don't know the mechanics of driving safely. They need to bring their learner's permit or driver's license. It costs $99 to register, but is FREE if you cannot afford it. You will get your $99 back after the class if you wish. My daughter Allison did a similar class by FastLane which was $495? and frankly, not any better.

There are 3 students per instructor (true experts, not driver's ed instructors), using KIA cars provided by BRAKES and KIA. FastLane uses YOUR car.

The first ~30 minutes is lecture, kind of Red Asphalt stuff. Meh. But does tell you some important data. 15-16 teens are killed each day on the average in cars. They are over 4 times as likely to be killed as you are. 89.2% of your kids will be in an accident the first 3 years of driving. After the BRAKES class, that number drops to 32%. And many insurance companies will drop your rates after the BRAKES class.

The driving part covers just emergency driving, things like mashing the brakes HARD while swerving, swerving at high speeds, and massive oversteer using special super-slippery rear tires. But the kicker is, the parents are separated from the teens, and the parents do the same training (to a lessor degree though). And guess what? 1/2 the parents didn't do well based on my seat time in the cars.

You also got a demonstration of airbag deployment, and how the Fire Dept cuts you out of a car. Yes, they cut up a brand new top of the line 4-door KIA. Cool! The Fire Dept and CHP were there to answer questions.
Then in the end, a brief lecture covering some more items, then the teen is issued a certificate of completion. But it's 80% driving for teens. And it was fun for both the teens and adults. Better than Disneyland, and I've been to a lot of driving schools, and have a lot of high-performance seat time in many different kinds of racing, cars, bikes, and trucks. You'd think I'd be bored "seen it all", but even I learned some new tips.

This is absolutely the best value in a Defensive Driving course for new drivers. I'd rate it 9 out of 10, simply because I don't give out 10's.

CLIFF NOTES:
The best value in a Teen Defensive Driving School is BRAKES. It is FREE or cheap, your pick, and it's fun, and high end stuff. It is nationwide. It's a non-profit organization.
https://putonthebrakes.org/home

Footnote: Doug Herbert himself was at this event, and I shook his hand and told him I admired what is he doing. He told me to spread the word. Since it's free to spread the word, consider it. It's for a good cause instead of just spreading another conspiracy theory.

 

[matt78]

Good read,youngest one in the house has been driving for 3 months now. Nerve racking

 

[MarkBroviak]

Awesome Pat! I'm a big fan of Doug and know the story well. Thanks for passing the word along and it's definitely something I will do with my kids as I was taught how to drive on the race track with my father. It makes a big difference I believe in a persons ability to assess the situation they are in and do something about it before it gets real ugly. It cost me a set of tires but to me looking back on it now it was worth it's weight in gold honestly.:thumb:

 

[WVRigrat05]

This class would have saved my grandparents thousands when I was in highschool. I learned defensive driving the hard way.
Good stuff, I think a lot of kids and adults need to take this coarse.

 

[McRat]

It seems most the focus today with auto safety is more crash survival systems in the car.

But the most survivable crash is the one that doesn't occur.

Driver's training is a far more productive (and probably cheaper) way to save lives.

I still continue to get training when I can. A) It's fun. B) As you get older, your RT and vision don't improve with time.

 

[McRat]

Footnote: Thomas already completed the state required auto training and motorcycle training. BRAKES will not be his last training. He enjoyed it, I enjoyed, so it's going to be Father/Son sort of adventure as time goes on.

 

[RPM Motorsports]

Nice, it's not too far from home. Three more years to go, hopefully it will still be around when my daughter is ready. She's been driving my vehicles off road since six, even placed third out of 28 in her first sled pull at ten. Hopefully the off road driving helps prep her with driving conditions. This class would be awesome no doubt

 

[clrussell]

Wish there had been something like this when I was learning to drive.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jacobdewey]

My dad took me to empty parking lots to spin cookies just for this reason. He would have me spin cookies in 2 and 4wd so I would have a familiarity of how the vehicle would react in each situation, therefore increasing my chances of how to react correctly. Sounds dumb, but screwing around with supervision is something that made me a better driver.

 

[gassux]

It seems that every time I have a car tailgating me it's a 17-25yr old girl texting like a zombie. In the past two months I've pulled to the shoulder and let car pass me more times than I can remember and it's getting worse and worse. Mind you this is New York so you can imagine how aggressive these androids are compared to the average driver.

I'm not familiar with these courses but does it teach anything about recognizing drivers under the influence of drugs? I know we have a pill/heroin problem here and I'd bet 4/10 drivers are under the influence of something.

 

[malibu795]

Very cool

 

[SmokeShow]

Very cool. Wish it was in every state.

 

[McRat]

Very cool. Wish it was in every state.

Mitch,

BRAKES is just one of a number of affordable defensive driving schools. I've only attended 2 for Teens, FastLane at Willow Springs, and BRAKES.

Given the max effort choice? Bondurant in AZ. That's the extreme shiit. Not affordable for most families.

Tirerack/BMW does another series http://streetsurvival.org/ , and I believe others exist. However, if it costs 2 plane tickets and motel room, just think what good funeral costs nowadays.

I witnessed a ~ 40 year old educated and affluent mom who normally drives a late BMW SUV. She was driving a well behaved car in emergency situations that she KNEW was about to happen. Best Case Scenario to avoid a crash.

Wowzers. It took her 4 tries to really hit the brakes, after it was demonstrated several times. She could not just NAIL the fookin' pedal, which is how ABS functions. Hit it fast and hard, and continue to steer.

 

[McRat]

It seems that every time I have a car tailgating me it's a 17-25yr old girl texting like a zombie. In the past two months I've pulled to the shoulder and let car pass me more times than I can remember and it's getting worse and worse. Mind you this is New York so you can imagine how aggressive these androids are compared to the average driver.

I'm not familiar with these courses but does it teach anything about recognizing drivers under the influence of drugs? I know we have a pill/heroin problem here and I'd bet 4/10 drivers are under the influence of something.

This particular course does cover distracted driving, but from the driver's side.

It's aimed more at what to do when the texting driver blows a red light right in front of you. How to miss the idiot. You can only control your vehicle, and pray you see idiots before they do something dumb.

This is part where the parent comes in. When I teach kids to drive, I'm constantly pointing out idiots. How to spot them, and how to avoid them.

One of the reason they have the parents participate is so you can continue their education on crash avoidance.

 

[McRat]

Very cool. Wish it was in every state.

Mitch - There are a whole bunch of BRAKES classes in North Carolina this year:

https://putonthebrakes.org/2016-upcoming-schedule

They sell out fast. We had to book months in advance.

 

[sawmilldmax]

Thanks for sharing this. I've got a grandson that'll soon need this. I'm glad to see it's in NC also. He probably won't get the opportunity to learn like I did driving a '68 C-50 dog-loaded with lumber with my learner's permit and a semi-agitated Dad riding shotgun giving loads of less than helpful advice.

 

[Cougar281]

I'll have to keep this in mind for when my Munchkin is old enough (got a few years yet - she turns one in January). Hopefully this will still be around in 15 or so years. But the other half of that equation is putting them in safe vehicles. Knowing what to do in an emergency is a great thing, but situations can come up where no matter your skill, you can't avoid a crash - this is where the safe vehicle comes in.

My Daughter will NEVER be driving an Asian POS. Cars from that region are absolute flaming pieces of junk. No idea why, but I've never seen an Asian car fare well in a crash. They might be 'reliable', but they are tin cans on wheels.

I was a volunteer firefighter for a number of years before I moved out of NY. I saw plenty of crashes. One thing that was a constant was the Asian vehicles always fared worse, and the occupants no better than other vehicles.

The most recent situation I can personally speak on was when my wife wrecked her 2001 Mustang back in 2010. She was trying to make a left turn into a gas station and was hit at more or less 45* - at the front passengers side corner, give or take a bit. By a Toyota Corolla. For the most part, the mustang looked like it had barely received a love tap - the PS fender wasn't even touched (yes, there was more 'hidden' damage, but still not even close to the extent of the Toyota). Air bags deployed (Fords are notorious for deploying when not needed and she DEFINITELY didn't need the air bag) and front end was tweaked just enough to catch the drivers door when trying to open it. From 30', it barely looked like it had been in a crash. The Toyota, however, looked like it had just hit a brick wall. And this was at less than 30 MPH. Probably less than 20, considering the POI was in the left turn lane less than 150' from a traffic light that the driver of the toyota was probably trying to beat. Everyone walked away without injury, but my point is I don't want to know what would have become of that POS Toyota and its occupants had the crash been more significant. With the damage done by a 'static' <30mph crash, I don't what to know what would have become of the driver or other occupants of the Toyota in a 40+MPH head on crash.

Two more such examples (that I don't have first hand experience with but one happened fairly close and the other where I used to live) date a few years further back for the closer one and a few months back for the one 'back home'. You can probably google the one further back. An Illinois state trooper killed two teenage girls when he crossed over the median on I64 @ 120+ MPH. He was driving a 2006 Impala, they were in a Mazda of some sort. Granted, this is a 'bit' outside any 'normal' crash considering the combined impact forces were something like 185MPH since reports show he was doing 120+ and they were doing 65, but the passenger compartment of the Impala was intact, albeit 'distorted', and he lived and recovered. The Mazda? Absolutely and totally destroyed from the floor pan up and both girls DOA. There was NO way to tell what the car was from any picture I've seen. They didn't even have the slightest glimmer of a chance. The more recent one was a a Scion vs a bus. Now, yes, the other vehicle was a bus, but from what I've seen, it was a relatively glancing hit, with relatively minor damage to the bus, but the Scion was a different story. The passenger survived, but the driver was killed. The car didn't crush or crumple, causing the drivers death, it DISSAPEARED. The A, B and C pillars were gone (I can't recall ever seeing the A, B & C pillars 'vanish' in this manner). Peeled away, thus peeling away the seat belt and ultimately causing the death of the driver. Had passenger compartment, including the B pillar, where the seatbelt is tethered, crumpled rather than disappeared, it's possible he would have survived (He was NOT in the drivers seat when the vehicle came to rest, and the drivers seat appeared to be intact).

The 'what-ifs' can be debated forever, and TBH, no manufacturer can make 100% safe vehicles, but I've seen enough for myself to never allow an Asian POS to be owned or driven by my wife or daughter (or any other kidlets that may come along).

Point is, make sure your loved ones are in SAFE vehicles, and don't blindly trust in 'crash ratings'. As morbid as it may seem to some, look to real world crashes. 'Crash ratings' are all peachy in controlled situations, but in the real world, they go out the window.

 

[Hot COCOAL]

Coolest idea I've seen at work in a while
Absolutely a necessary skill to own, when operating a motor vehicle

It's tragic how great things come to be out of great misfortune.

Thanks for sharing Pat
Take care of those kiddo's y'all!

 

[duratothemax]

She could not just NAIL the fookin' pedal, which is how ABS functions. Hit it fast and hard, and continue to steer.

This is where the panic brake assist function of the latest ABS software comes into play.

Panic brake assist didnt arrive until ~2010-2011 or so, and can only work on a car that already has Electronic Stability Control.

Traditional ABS does require you to hold the pedal as hard as possible, as you said, because the pump motor and hardware isnt capable of pressure builds above what the driver is exerting on the master cylinder.

However this is not true with the latest ESC hardware/software. The pumps and valves are so efficient that the rate and force that the driver puts on the pedal no longer is a limiting factor in braking

The TRW EBC-460 ABS/ESC/TCS module that GM uses on the 2015+ full size trucks/SUV's can achieve over 1g in deceleration/braking force within 100 milliseconds or so without the driver applying any force to the brake pedal.

Talk about an incredibly efficient and fast acting hydraulic pump...

As you said Pat, a lot of drivers panic and either dont press the brake pedal hard enough, or they press it hard initially and then let up a little bit without even knowing it, because they're freaking out and trying to concentrate on steering to avoid an accident.

The panic brake assist algorithm in the most recent ABS systems will generally prime the pump/pre-charge the brakes for a second, and prepare the system for an ABS/ESC event if the driver rapidly lets off of the accelerator pedal and/or performs an unexpected rapid steering event...then as soon as the driver first hits the brake pedal, if the initial application of the brake pedal is greater than a certain rate over a given period of time, the system immediately goes into full ABS and holds maximum braking until there is a significant and deliberate/rapid release of brake pedal pressure by the driver.

This is extremely effective in getting the vehicle stopped faster for inexperienced/elderly drivers who might not press the brake pedal hard enough to begin with, or drivers who press hard initially, but then unintentially lift up a bit.

Also, with hydroboost systems like on our HD trucks that generally develop lower power brake assist at lower RPM's, this algorithm in the ABS module will overcome that and ensure that even though the engine dropped down to idle RPM, there is no loss of power brake assist.

Your Volt probably has panic brake assist. Your CTS-V may or may not have it. I think GM phased it in around 2010-2011 or so. If you're on the highway and no one is behind you, chop the throttle and immediately hit the brake pedal hard and fast, then as soon as ABS kicks in, lift off the pedal slightly, and you'll probably feel that the car is still braking just as hard as it was initially. Or slam on the brakes and then instantly lift off the brake pedal, it'll feel kinda like the brakes are stuck on for another 50 milliseconds or so, until the system realizes that you deliberately let off the brakes and exits panic brake assist mode.

I had to stop really quickly on the highway a couple weeks ago in my LML due to an accident several cars in front of me, and I would say panic brake assist easily gave me an extra half second "head start" of getting the truck slowed down, because everything was all ready to go and I already had full braking available before I even had the pedal on the floor.

 

[duratothemax]

I'll have to keep this in mind for when my Munchkin is old enough (got a few years yet - she turns one in January). Hopefully this will still be around in 15 or so years. But the other half of that equation is putting them in safe vehicles. Knowing what to do in an emergency is a great thing, but situations can come up where no matter your skill, you can't avoid a crash - this is where the safe vehicle comes in.

My Daughter will NEVER be driving an Asian POS. Cars from that region are absolute flaming pieces of junk. No idea why, but I've never seen an Asian car fare well in a crash. They might be 'reliable', but they are tin cans on wheels.

I was a volunteer firefighter for a number of years before I moved out of NY. I saw plenty of crashes. One thing that was a constant was the Asian vehicles always fared worse, and the occupants no better than other vehicles.

The most recent situation I can personally speak on was when my wife wrecked her 2001 Mustang back in 2010. She was trying to make a left turn into a gas station and was hit at more or less 45* - at the front passengers side corner, give or take a bit. By a Toyota Corolla. For the most part, the mustang looked like it had barely received a love tap - the PS fender wasn't even touched (yes, there was more 'hidden' damage, but still not even close to the extent of the Toyota). Air bags deployed (Fords are notorious for deploying when not needed and she DEFINITELY didn't need the air bag) and front end was tweaked just enough to catch the drivers door when trying to open it. From 30', it barely looked like it had been in a crash. The Toyota, however, looked like it had just hit a brick wall. And this was at less than 30 MPH. Probably less than 20, considering the POI was in the left turn lane less than 150' from a traffic light that the driver of the toyota was probably trying to beat. Everyone walked away without injury, but my point is I don't want to know what would have become of that POS Toyota and its occupants had the crash been more significant. With the damage done by a 'static' <30mph crash, I don't what to know what would have become of the driver or other occupants of the Toyota in a 40+MPH head on crash.

Two more such examples (that I don't have first hand experience with but one happened fairly close and the other where I used to live) date a few years further back for the closer one and a few months back for the one 'back home'. You can probably google the one further back. An Illinois state trooper killed two teenage girls when he crossed over the median on I64 @ 120+ MPH. He was driving a 2006 Impala, they were in a Mazda of some sort. Granted, this is a 'bit' outside any 'normal' crash considering the combined impact forces were something like 185MPH since reports show he was doing 120+ and they were doing 65, but the passenger compartment of the Impala was intact, albeit 'distorted', and he lived and recovered. The Mazda? Absolutely and totally destroyed from the floor pan up and both girls DOA. There was NO way to tell what the car was from any picture I've seen. They didn't even have the slightest glimmer of a chance. The more recent one was a a Scion vs a bus. Now, yes, the other vehicle was a bus, but from what I've seen, it was a relatively glancing hit, with relatively minor damage to the bus, but the Scion was a different story. The passenger survived, but the driver was killed. The car didn't crush or crumple, causing the drivers death, it DISSAPEARED. The A, B and C pillars were gone (I can't recall ever seeing the A, B & C pillars 'vanish' in this manner). Peeled away, thus peeling away the seat belt and ultimately causing the death of the driver. Had passenger compartment, including the B pillar, where the seatbelt is tethered, crumpled rather than disappeared, it's possible he would have survived (He was NOT in the drivers seat when the vehicle came to rest, and the drivers seat appeared to be intact).

The 'what-ifs' can be debated forever, and TBH, no manufacturer can make 100% safe vehicles, but I've seen enough for myself to never allow an Asian POS to be owned or driven by my wife or daughter (or any other kidlets that may come along).

Point is, make sure your loved ones are in SAFE vehicles, and don't blindly trust in 'crash ratings'. As morbid as it may seem to some, look to real world crashes. 'Crash ratings' are all peachy in controlled situations, but in the real world, they go out the window.

x2.

If you can afford it, buy the newest/safest vehicle possible for your kids, make sure it has ESC, and make sure it is rated good in the IIHS small-overlap offset test.

Most cars and SUV's that have designs released in 2010-2012ish and up do well in the small overlap frontal test, because thats when IIHS started doing that extremely challenging test. Cars with designs/body styles that debuted prior to that era, range from perfect to horrible in the small overlap test.

Even in only the past 5 years, crash safety has improved tremendously.

Size generally does matter/help, but its not everything. How modern the car is can outweigh the fact of what size car it is. For example, you're probabaly safer in a 2015 chevy cruise than in a 2005 Impala...

IIHS didnt start doing that test until 2012. When they first started doing the test, not many models did well and automakers scrambled to catch up and update models/redesign things. Even the Audi's/BMW's/etc of the 2010-2013 time didnt do well when the small-overlap test first started being done.

A safe car doesnt have to be expensive. If you look around, there are still a handful of older/cheaper cars that still do well in the latest IIHS small-overlap offset crash test.

Probably the best example of an easy to find cheaper extremely safe car that I can think of is the first gen Volvo XC-90. Their production ran from 2003-2015, and they all passed the newest/most rigorous IIHS small-overlap crash test with flying colors. Thats incredibly impressive if you ask me.

The XC90 is for all intents and purposes a late-90's design (released in 2003), and Volvo was already 10+ years ahead of the curve with safety/crash tests.

One of my girlfriend's friends at work just picked up a great condition 05 XC90 with like 140k miles on it for $6k I think. Thats incredibly cheap for something that can seat 7 people, is all wheel drive, and every bit as safe as a current 2015-model-year vehicle.