Supercharger reliability????

[carcrafter22]

I have a procharger D1SC to put on my isuzu 3.9L engine and will be pairing it with either a 62 or 64 mm S300 series turbo.

Can anyone comment on the reliability of the procharger? This will be a street driven truck only NO track use.

 

[McRat]

People who blow them up are normally overspeeding them. Do the math, and make sure you are in the right RPM range with the pulley. Even if you aren't racing, if you overspeed it, you can hurt it. It's not like a turbo, it will spin at whatever speed the gearing tells it.
Keep the belt tension correct. Overtightening is not a fix for belt slip.

 

[wikdlmm]

mayBe mike will chime in

 

[Mike]

I have a procharger D1SC to put on my isuzu 3.9L engine and will be pairing it with either a 62 or 64 mm S300 series turbo.

Can anyone comment on the reliability of the procharger? This will be a street driven truck only NO track use.

People who blow them up are normally overspeeding them. Do the math, and make sure you are in the right RPM range with the pulley. Even if you aren't racing, if you overspeed it, you can hurt it. It's not like a turbo, it will spin at whatever speed the gearing tells it.
Keep the belt tension correct. Overtightening is not a fix for belt slip.

Like Pat says, rpm is key to survival.

Have any idea the rpm you will be cruising this engine and what rpm you limit the engine?

 

[carcrafter22]

Good advice Pat. I will be running it with a 12" crank pulley and 4" charger pulley which should let the charger spin to 61,500rpm at my self imposed engine speed of 5000rpm.
d1sc red line is 62,000rpm
How does that sound?

I chose this rpm so that I could run a lower charger rpm when at cruise along with keeping boost down at cruising rpm. I should be cruising at 1700rpm at 70mph.

I still havent made up my mind on which style of belt to use. I have no experience with coged belts I just know they arent cheap (which I dont mind if they are better for me).

Are the cog belts less reliable on a street truck that will see a good bit of miles? How do they compare to an 8 rib serpentine?

Does anyone have any imput on which style of belt to use? cogged, 8 rib serp, 10 rib serp?

How about rules of thumb for choosing a charger? I know with the fuel I am running I can easily spool a 60mm charger with a large turbine side and feel that a well built S362 or S364 would spool with no problem.

I noticed mick went with a gt45 (probably equivalent to an S468 on my motor as a single) but still havent chosen exactly what charger yet.

 

[moore428]

10 rib & match airflow of heads, you want airflow not pressure.

 

[Mike]

What rpm do you think that d-1sc will begin building boost? My guess is around 20,000 rpm impeller speed. Somewhere around 1700rpm engine speed. For 3.9l, I'm not sure this would be the best charger. May need to speak with Procharger regarding surge and this compressor.

 

[Lonnie]

Cog belts are not normally recommended for street driving. Due to RPM fluctuations, the inertia of the charger tends to keep it spinning when the engine rpm drops, this can cause belt fatigue & remove belt teeth prematurely.

For the street, I recommend a serpentine drive. 12 rib kits are available which work pretty well & give sufficient belt traction for a D-1SC.

If you insist on a cog drive, look into the sprag pulley from ATI Performance Products, it freewheels under deceleration to keep from killing belts.

 

[Mike]

10 rib & match airflow of heads, you want airflow not pressure.

IMHO you need them both. :thumb: for the 10 Rib, cog belts are very aggressive and hard on components.

 

[carcrafter22]

I think at this point I am leaning towards a 10rib pulley setup. I chose the D1SC because it meets the flow requirements I am shooting for (a little more air than I need = no smoke). I am not really sure when to expect boost to come on, I have never ran a supercharger on a diesel so it will be a learning curve just like when I built my twin turbo setup but they turned out great hopefully this will too. I am thinking I will try the current pulley setup I am thinking of right now and adjust from there if I have to so I can bring boost on where I want to.

The twins I built would do roughly 450hp so this setup is aiming for that and a little more with enough fuel. The new 100% injectors should help with that.

There just isnt much info out there about supercharging a diesel and most folks onw want to give up any knowledge.

So should a supercharger be just as reliable as a turbo for a street vehicle?

 

[paint94979]

There just isnt much info out there about supercharging a diesel and most folks onw want to give up any knowledge.

I am sure Mike can answer lots of questions for you he and Mick have done some amazing things

 

[Mike]

Spinning that charger high enough to build boost at lower rpm's may prove to be a problem. If you speed it up too much, when it starts to compress, you're probably going to find it will surge. You can remedy that by venting, which will allow the required cfm through the compressor, as to allow for a steady climb in pressure. Otherwise, once compression begins you'll overwhelm the turbo and cause both to surge.

We had the bigger is better mentality and decided to compound a couple of f-2's of different varieties. Wow did we learn what surge was about. Normally on a turbocharger system, we only notice surge once we back out of the fuel and rpm start to fall. Ie... under load and spinning turbo's it's hard to stand beside them and see what is going on. large turbo's surge but it's much more difficult to pickup on it. Depending on your air flow requirements you have set, you may get by with this setup particularly since you already have the to chargers. Just picture an air compressor which cycles as a small air tool is used versus the same compressor run time while airing a big truck tire. The cycling is the compressor surge.

I would probably run a smaller supercharger and if I had the turbo already, I'd try and match the turbine housing closer to intake cfm and fueled quantity. JMHO That compressor exducer diameter is going to be a hard one to deal with. One other way would be to drive the turbo as hard as possible down down low and taper off with a wastegate. This would allow the compound effect to help with that monster sc for this 3.9l engine. Just a thought.

 

[Mike]

Cog belts are not normally recommended for street driving. Due to RPM fluctuations, the inertia of the charger tends to keep it spinning when the engine rpm drops, this can cause belt fatigue & remove belt teeth prematurely.

For the street, I recommend a serpentine drive. 12 rib kits are available which work pretty well & give sufficient belt traction for a D-1SC.

If you insist on a cog drive, look into the sprag pulley from ATI Performance Products, it freewheels under deceleration to keep from killing belts.

Hey Lonnie, not to influence this post but we found and started using a belt by Goodyear called the "Blackhawk". It's a kevlar belt and will take a beating. I've only lost one so far and it was because I let it get caught in some hoses. Just an FYI but you probably already knew.

 

[mytmousemalibu]

Mike & Mick are some Procharged fools! (in a good way):thumb: Love that sound! Our buddies Chevelle has a lil F-3R on it.......= insta-woodie:rofl:

Not to step on toes or anyone, but might give Procharger a shout aswell. There a pretty helpful bunch. I talked to them here a while back about Procharging a stroke of my friends.

On a further note, Empire Diesel does alot of diesel/procharger work, perhaps they might have insight for ya?

Just out of curiosity, IF you might be intrested in parting with that HY-35? Shoot me a PM with specs and price:thumb:

 

[Mike]

Mike & Mick are some Procharged fools! (in a good way):thumb: Love that sound! Our buddies Chevelle has a lil F-3R on it.......= insta-woodie:rofl:

Not to step on toes or anyone, but might give Procharger a shout aswell. There a pretty helpful bunch. I talked to them here a while back about Procharging a stroke of my friends.

On a further note, Empire Diesel does alot of diesel/procharger work, perhaps they might have insight for ya?

Just out of curiosity, IF you might be intrested in parting with that HY-35? Shoot me a PM with specs and price:thumb:

Is Jim still at Procharger? He was great when I spoke with him a while ago. Have you got any experience with that f3-139? I hear it is the best thing since sliced cheese. Well for a big block doing 8000rpm lol

 

[mytmousemalibu]

Is Jim still at Procharger? He was great when I spoke with him a while ago. Have you got any experience with that f3-139? I hear it is the best thing since sliced cheese. Well for a big block doing 8000rpm lol

Well, that sounds right but its been a while since i called and i do know quite a few Jim's:spit: I might have spoken to him at an ADRL event in Topeka? Since there in Lenexa, KS its quite possible, lot of there chargers at that show. I dont have any personal Procharger experiance, but a couple of good racer friends are running the F-3's, not quite sure which ones. One runs a chevelle in 10.5 Outlaw the other is pro-mod. Kurt, the 10.5 guy is pretty close with the guys up there and does alot of work with them far as i know and one or 2 other racers were workin there last i knew. Kurts chevelle is a 4xx ci BBC on the F-3R and hes runnin 1 mechanical fuel injector and 2 efi inj. per cylinder cant remember what his best is. last time i saw it he was runner-up at our local street nats and the blower sucked in a strap from the ballistic blanket and chunked the impeller. Heres a link with a stat and pic of his ride (blue chevelle) http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/kansas-international-dragway-new-heads-up-636.html#

 

[Mike]

Wow, those are nice cars. Steve Morris builds some nice ones and uses the gear driven f-3 superchargers. 54? and 572 packages as well. Wonder if they are the same?

 

[carcrafter22]

Mike what are your thoughts on turbo selection? I already have the procharger.

I chose the d1sc after looking through some stuff on the net and looking at cfm output and what I wanted to do, then after talking with empire diesel and a couple different guys from procharger I figured that would be a good supercharger for what I wanted hp wise.

I figured I would install a 50mm tial blow off to help with tuning.

 

[mytmousemalibu]

Glad to hear you got some info! I think I talked to them about a D1 for my buddies stroke but it was too small and iirc it uses an engine oil feed for the charger, so the one we were eyeballin was a no-no on the stroke because the tiny gear wear particles would foul up the HUEI injectors of the stroke.

My only real centrafugal experiance was a Rotrex on a BMW. It ran pretty well but it had a tiny stock Bosch/Audi/VW blow-off and it would surge like a mofo once it started to. During WOT if i double steped the throttle it would surge pretty bad aswell as coasting off a WOT run. If your gonna run the BD/TiAL setup with the controller, its not going to help any at all till you cut throttle and or gets a clutch release signal. Hope you find a good combo that dosnt surge at WOT. The BOV would be a good thing to have regardless Love mine!

 

[carcrafter22]

Yeah the guys at empire have been pretty helpful, procharger doesnt have any maps or anything (wish they did) for their chargers but oh well. The D1SC is a self containted charger you just have to change the fluid about every 5,000 miles or when you change the engine oil, this is one of the many reasons I went with a procharger.I was just gonna run a 50mm tial blowoff and manually adjust it, no controller, I will have enough electronics with the 5R110/pcs controller and retroteck push button shifter setup. Heck I dont even have the radio hooked up (havent for the past 8 months LOL).

The optima battery went out early this year (darn thing only 10 months old at the time) but I could still drive during the day time since its a stick right now LOL gotta love no electronics sometimes. I may miss it later on when I switch to a 4.5L common rail motor.