there is no subsidy for tobacco any more. matter of fact the big tobacco money that was supposed to go to farmers and tobacco dependent jobs and areas for new developement has been over raided by the fed govt. no big suprise there. i dont grow that by the way. there is tons of waste in the ag budget. however most of the money in the farm bill never gits to farms. free school lunches, welfare ect...if subsidies go away expect grocery bills to go up even more so than they have in recent years. prolly should expect more peoblems with the food supply in general. i could go on and on as im sure you could. of we ever meet up at a race some where im sure we can chat it up over a cool one and agree to disagree...
superbowl commercials
- Thread starter whitetrash21
- Start date
To bad you didn't choke on your puke. There's a a lot of hard working farmers on here with generations of people behind them that worked a little to hard for you to spit in our faces.
i can double check but my family been farming since 1820's both grain and livestock.. between the H1N1, ethanal doubling corn prices... the COE blowing up all the leavies and ruining 1,000s of acres of fertile farmland along I29.. drove by those farms are still a wreck after waht 3 years they did that??the farmers have gotten very little if any subsidies at al!! with the labor laws they want to pass would kill off more due to not allowing your sons/duaghter work for you.. it ahs force the farmers to become big "mega farms" just to survive... they are mulit million dollar small buisness and the taxes, income estate, etc dont help either!
this new farm bill they passed doesnt do sqaut for the farmers..
It takes a long time for Metal Halides to reset. Just the ones in our barn take at least 10 minutes before restart and take another 10 to warm up.
The ag forums are all over it, Dodge did make a big dent.
In my opinion, the Ram commercial while touching, and having Paul Harveys accurate description of many farmers, was very misleading and a slap in the face to ag. The consumer wants to see every farmer on Old Mcdonalds farm, run down red barns, beat up tractors, animals wandering around, then some guy drives up in a brand new truck? Anyways, the point is that in a world where the larger operations are under a lot of pressure as it is, we do not need companies like them trying to encourage that image. Those farmers are well respected as well, but people need to move to the 21st century, farms are larger, more streamlined, efficient and environmentally responsible. Technology has allowed us to reduce inputs, save the environment, and produce a better quality product, yet this commercial portrays us as being in the 1800s just working our asses off.
Ask successful farmers about subsidies. They don't care. They can go away for all we care, we would love to see them go away. The bottom line is that successful farms do not rely on subsidies, many don't even apply for them. Subsidies help those who poorly manage their farms get by, the sooner the subsidies are gone the sooner those farms are gone, and the better businessman can move in and run things better.
I don't support ethanol at all. I think the government realizes they listened to the lobbyists a little too much on corn ethanol and now they see it is a terrible idea. If they dropped the subsidies most plants would shut down. This would be a good thing for us. Currently over 45% of our nations corn goes into ethanol production.
I used to have respect for you Subman, your utter ignorance on how farming works bothers me, however I am not one to hold grudges and just think you need some education on the issue. In lieu of writing a completely new response, I will quote the one I posted on DF in response to an angered gentleman over there who parents lost their farm. He blamed larger farms, I responded to his concerns. I will post a link in addition to the quote so that you can go and read the entire backstory if at anytime the quote does not make sense.
To paraphrase, the gentleman's family was a small operation that went bankrupt. He blames large farms, but has a specific one he apparantly is targeting. This farm has a double 18 parlor, and he says 15 freestall barns. He says large farms buy acreage for pennies on the dollar and drive up the costs of replacement parts and repairs on equipment.
One last note, you have your statistics backwards, 2% of Americas farms are corporately owed. 98% are family owned an operated. Upon re-reading your statement, you state that only 2% of the American population are still on farms, which is true. 200 years ago that statistic was reversed. 98% of americans lived and worked on a farm. Over the years farms have grown because people do not want to farm anymore, they want to get out and do something else with their lives. You yourself are not a farmer and that is completely fine and needed for progression of our society, in the place of those who leave the farm, other farms need to take over their portion of supplying food. Without larger farms, there would be no innovation, no technology, and no efficiency. We have the cheapest food in the world. Most of the guys on here would not have a pulling/racing truck if they had to pay what others pay for food. Heck most people wouldn't even have a truck to begin with. It does somewhat offend me when people cannot see the light, but I don't take it personal, and enjoy taking the time to explain my thoughts and answer any further questions you may have.
Thanks.
Here is the thread.
http://www.duramaxforum.com/forum/off-topic-forum/155565-dodge-ram-farmers-commercial.html
Below is my response to the gentleman including his quote.
Let me take some time to respond to this. Being a large dairy farmer myself, I see a lot of the mis-information and negative views towards large farms.
Before I begin. Breif background. My dad started with his own herd that grew to 90 Holsteins. The cows were being bred so large that he needed to redo the barn. So he tried a Jersey. Around that time I was born as well. They liked the size, friendliness and efficiency of the Jerseys, so they switched the entire here and grew to 160 Jerseys switching the stanchion barn 3 times a day. My mom still worked off the farm at that time in the late 80s early 90s. In the mid 90s we needed more room, so we moved to our current location which was a beat down 250 cow farm nearing bankruptcy. It took a lot of work to clean it up and expand it into what it is today. We now milk 650 Jerseys at this location and another 500 at a 2nd location. We raise all of our own replacement heifers, and steers. We run 1,000 acres, own half of that. The new dairy we just started up milking the 500 cows is a rental agreement with the cash grain farmer that owns the facility.We do not harvest the feed at that farm. That farm does have a 40 cow rotary which greatly improves efficiency. Our home location has a double 7 parlor. We milk 2 times per day 9-11hrs per shift. We haul all of our own milk and do the majority of our own repairs and fabrication. We also do all of our own fieldwork, manure hauling and spraying for the home farm. We will hire some chemical/fertilizer out when the price is right.
The term "Factory Farm" gets thrown around a lot these days, with no clear description of what it is. If you look at what a Farm is, it is simply an area of land/structures used for production of food,fuel and fiber. If you look at what a factory is, it is a controlled operation that has been streamlined to produce something efficiently. So in essence, a "Factory Farm" is a streamlined are of land/structures used to efficiently produce food,fuel and fiber. However, mention "Factory Farm" anywhere to anyone and the immediate thought is an evil massive operation that is abusive to animals, environment and sustainability. In a way, you could call every farm a factory farm, because in some way shape or form every farmer has found a way to streamline something. The question becomes where do you set the bar for the public to determine what a factory farm is. To that, there is no answer as every persons opinion will be different. In my opinion if people want to label our operation as a "Factory Farm", they will, all I can do is show them our operation, what we do and attempt to change the way they view the term "Factory Farm".
Next comes the term "Corporate Farm". There again, we have the term "Farm". Then we have "Corporate", corporate relates to corporation which is referenced as an organized business structure. All farms should be organized businesses, many small farms are not which is why many fail, but we will get onto that later. Many people see farms names that are followed by LLC, Corp, or inc. They generally associate them as corporate farms. Well they are correct, the farms are organized corporations. However it becomes the issue again of where to draw the line. A 10 cow herd with 2 acres can be a corporation, so can the 10,000 cow here and 100,000 acre farm. Its the public image that any sort of organized business in farming is bad. Again, all I can do is help to change their outlook. The number one thing though that I do not like when referenced as a "Corporate Farm" is the perception that we are controlled by a larger corportation (Cargill,Tyson,Monsanto, etc.). That couldn't be further from the truth in the dairy industry.
Personally in lieu of the above descriptors I prefer to call larger scale operations, "Commercial Farms". I feel the public sees any dairy farm with a freestall barn, and grain farmer with a 24 row planter and any operation with multiple feedlots , a Large Factory/Corporate/Commercial farmer.
There is also the term "Family Farm". We know what a farm is, a family is a group of relatives. 98% of Americas farms are family owned and operated. Our farm is also a family operation. I cannot name one farm that I know of in the area that isn't a family operation. Farming is a heritage, it's not taught in school, that is why it has still been a family affair and always will be in the Dairy industry.
Now we get down to the meat and potatoes. The public image. As the Ram commercial clearly shows, Americans want to see "Old McDonald's" farm. They want little red barns, old tractors and cows on the hillside. In an era where financial stability, environmental sustainability and a safe food supply are becoming ever increasingly important, consumers want to go back to basics with ag.
Now am I saying that the old red barn is bad? Not at all. There are niche markets that many small farmers are entering to be very successful. Organic, Natural, Locally Grown, all of these are good Niche markets when they can play fair with the commercially grown food. The issue that lies within is that they often use the publics negative perception towards the larger farmers and fuel the fire to battle against us. Their advertising and consumer outreach is huge as that is what they make their profit on, the larger farms do not generally get the chance to, or take the time to defend their positions. Its hard to really. Personally I have no issues with any person drinking Organic or all Natural milk, as long as they have a nuetral outlook on the issues. Those who drink it because they feel that the commercially available milk is "poison" are the ones I disagree strongly with. In addition to the ones who think cows on Organic Farms are treated better than those in a traditional operation. Antibiotics become a big topic, many do not think cows every get treated on organic farms. They do, they just have a 60 day withhold time.
So why big farms, why did we expand, why do others expand? There are many reasons why people have expanded, the main reasons boil back down to family. Farmers don't want to have to work from 5-9 everyday anymore, missing the kids soccer game,school event, etc. They don't want to live in a drafty old farmhouse with splintered wood floors and ratty clothes. Most expanded because they wanted to be able to successfully have a comfortable happy healthy lifestyle. Others expand to incorporate others into the family operation. Its been shown time and time again that 100 cows will support one person as will 1000 acres. That is why often times it is the farmer and a hired hand doing all of the work, while his wife is off at an outside job that has benefits. In order to bring more families back into the family operation it has to grow. Not everybody wants to go have their own farm, more people would rather stick together and work as a team and running an efficient operation than deal with the everyday toils of trying to get by.
Efficiency. The number one thing you will see behind successful larger farms. i say successful because there are many who expand that are efficient and fail. Being able to utilize new technology and larger equipment makes it easier to do more with less. 10 farmers with an old 60hp tractor doing all of the work on their own 160 acres versus one farmer doing the same 1600 acres with a 600hp tractor in less time, with less fuel, lower emissions, and less man hours. Taking a few hours to milk 100 cows in a stanchion parlor versus milking 200+ per hour on a rotary parlor with the same amount of people. Getting 50% more milk production per cow simply by utilizing a TMR versus more traditional methods. Being large enough to buy feed in bulk by the rail car or semi load, reduces costs per unit.
This brings me to my main point. Business. This is why many small farms fail. Business. Your farm is a business. It is a lifestyle, and is very emotional but at the end of the day it is a business. If you do not sit down, put everything on paper and manage the crap out of it, you will fail. You cannot get by doing what dad and grandpa did. Too many kids get so into the day to day chores and just doing things the way they used to be without thought, they miss that their dad or grandpa is doing the Business end of things to make it work. When this chain gets broken its only a matter of time. Farming is emotional on every level, but you have to get rid of a lot of emotions when the business end slaps you in the face. I can sense in your post a lot of emotion. Your families farm didn't make it, it is a sad thing, very emotional. However there are many ways to make it work, perhaps a lot of bad things lined up in a row. It happens to a lot of people and I am sorry for your families loss. Please understand my outlook though as there are many who want all the pity for loosing their family farms when there were many many things they could've done to save it. I am not accusing you of this at all though. When it comes to land prices. Large farms do not get a break. Often times the price is driven up some by the extra money they have. Some buy cheap land and stick a lot of time and money into making it good land.
It sounds to me like you have your anger pointed at a specific dairy and you blame them for all of the issues. While I do agree, there are plenty of people that do bad business, if they truely are evil, they would fail. Farming is still very much a handshake business. If you go around being disrespectful, its only a matter of time before people will not rent land to you and salesman will not want to deal with you. Large farms can and do compete for land, but many landowners are loyal. At the same time many large farmers are very good stewards of the land and respectful to the landowners.
I believe that going forward it will take a combination of small and large farmers working together for the same goal, producing a safe product for the consumer in an sustainable way.
Some things that large farmers often get criticized for are things like Manure Spills, Freestall Barns, and rBGH. I will start with rBGH as you reference it in your post. You imply all large farms use it. This couldn't be further from the truth, large farmers alongside small farmers both use it and do not use it. Those who do use it do no necessarily use it in every cow. It is a tool, it has to be used properly. Some cows have the genetics to benefit from it, others do not. Some farms can benefit, others do not. It takes a different management strategy. In our experiences of using it and being off of it, we didn't notice adverse effects on the cows themselves. If you would like to get into an ethics battle of using cows as a domesticated animal to produce milk, I cannot comment there as there is no real answer.
Next is the Manure topic. Many feel large farms are the main source of pollution. Remember, I do feel it takes both large and small farmers a like to succeed, but since you appear anti-large farm, I can comment here. Large farms manure, silage runoff, and other potential pollution are regulated and monitored by the DNR and EPA. We have to control runoff from every angle and apply nutrients respecfully. You will find that most larger farms are more likely to properly apply nutrients. Many smaller farms take the spreader every day to the closest field, or one of the other fields that has been in their families possession for years. If you sample the fields you can see the over application of nutrients that is common on those types of operations. it's not their fault, its what grandpa always did and they do not have a large area of land to choose from or efficient means to transport their manure, however its just an example of how big farms are not always evil. Larger farms rely on using efficient setups once or twice per year, such as draglines that incorporate manure into the soil based on a variable rate of what is needed, then record a map and print it out for the farmer to use when adressing other needs for the field.
Then there is the freestall barn. Many people feel they are cruel. Personally I do not understand why and try to take my time to explain it to people. It's very hard to while making sure to not put down smaller operations as I feel we both need to be around, however given your view on them, I feel I can make a direct comparison. In a typical stanchion barn, cows sit in the same small stall (similar in size to a freestall) for a certain period of time. Some will be there their whole life and never move, others will be let out into a dooryard and many will be let out to pasture. Pastures take proper management, a lot of erosion and runoff can be created in them if not managed properly. In the summer we have young stock on over 300 acres of pasture. In a freestall setup, cows are allowed to roam freely with free choice water, feed, and bedding. Most freestalls utilize some sort of mattress covered with a fine bedding, or deeply bedded sand (which is cows preferred bedding). The barns are cleaned multiple times per day to help with foot health. Ventilation and cooling are adequate as is warmth for the winter. Freestall's allow easier management of larger groups of animals. Neither barn option can be directly compared really as both are in different settings. If this factory farm near you has 15 freestall barns to house the amount of cows that a double 18 could milk, they are grossly inefficient.
I am not sure what you mean by mass breeding programs? If you are referring to sexed semen, not everyone uses that as it is very expensive. Otherwise I guess I am not sure what you mean? Every cow has to be bred every year, thats how the cycle works. If they are flooding the market with animals the price should be going down, especially with the way the west coast dairy market is. They were loosing a dairy every day for awhile.
At the end of the day, it is a free market place. Large farmers are not putting small farmer small farmers out of business, small farmers are falling behind or retiring. Most of the small farmers in my area that quit simply did it because they were sick of working so much for nothing. Many of the small farmers that have succeeded have good off farm jobs, or found a niche market. The large farms may put some pressure on the smaller ones, but smaller farmers constantly blaming the larger farmers for putting them out of business are often times looking for a good excuse to offset their own shortcomings. Not every time, but a lot of times it is used because it is so easy to do and everyone will jump on the gravy train with you.
Farming is a passion, a lifestyle and a heritage. It takes a smart family to operate any size farm, however at the end of the day it is a business and needs to be run that way, when that aspect is overlooked, things can turn sour quick.
I enjoyed the opportunity to respond to you. Remember, I am not targeting you or anyone else. I believe it will take many different farms of all sizes going forward. Not every large farm succeeds which opens up other opportunities. The best thing for aspiring youth to do is to go work on a larger operation and start getting involved, that way they wan transition into owner ship of that farm someday.
Thanks. Have a good night/day.
Below is another response I had to further explain the corporations.
Exactly. Our farm consists of my Dad, my late mom (RIP) and myself along with our other employees that all work together to try and make it the best we can. When my mom passed dad took things seriously and we finally divided the farm into three separate Corporations. One owns the land, one owns the equipment and buildings and the other is the operating corporation that leases from the other two. We also have our Self Propelled Forage Harvester, Merger, and forage wagons in a separate LLC that consists of our farm, my uncles and a cousins farm so that the equipment can be better utilized. All of the other equipment that gets used gets billed through that LLC and everything has a log book for hours so we can charge each farm what is needed at the end of each crop. Between the farms the equipment can now run across 1000 acres of hay each crop and 1000 acres of corn silage and snaplage at the end of the year.
Its all about protecting yourself financially and legally while also allowing easier transition of others into ownership. Currently dad is the main shareholder on all of ours, however it has created an easy way for me to work my way into ownership as I travel down that path and will allow my brother and sister to come into the operation if they choose.
Which reminds me of a very important thing my parents taught us. GET OFF THE FARM. We could not come back to the farm until we worked off the farm for 2 years. This is to break the cycle. You think you want to farm, but you don't really know and if you keep doing things the way your dad does them, you will not last long. Working off the farm lets you know if you really want to go back, and brings fresh ideas to the table when you do. Networking with people is the most important reason to get off the farm.
Farming is a business. Too many people fail to realize this and then fail. When they do, they blame the bigger farms as its an easy target to place the blame on someone other than themselves. People will always like to pass blame on, but I like to take the chance to rebuttal some.
Smaller farms simply have to find Niche markets. You don't go out and try to compete with Miller or Budweiser when you make a micro-brew, you cater to the local people, setup a cozy atmosphere maybe at a brewpub, and sell on other attributes that make your product special from the generic stuff the big guys are making.
Even large farms find niche markets. One in Arizona supplies all milk to Subway, another in Kansas supplies all milk for Dannon's greek yogurt.
Its a marketplace like any. If the government would get out of the way we could really make some headway with it.
When it comes to election time, everyone wanting "tax the wealthy" are hurting many farmers. Many farmers simply have everything in their name, which makes their net worth much higher than the average 9-5er, this creates a lot of tax issues. Especially estate tax/inheritance tax. Right now, if dad died, my brother, sister and myself would be forced to sell the farm to cover the taxes. It's sad, but its the way things are setup. Many middle class 9-5'ers simply don't have a grasp on the big picture. The think wealthy and think CEO's and bonuses. They think those people shouldn't get money for the work they put in. I agree many shouldn't, and every situation is different, but at the same time you can't always punish people for working hard. Most who made their millions started a lot of jobs along the way.
Thats all I have for now. What all does you family run?
my family was big cattle(beef) from the late 1800 to late 1980s we sold out right before the beef price crashed. whe had 900-1300 head at any given time.. in 92 we bought up a failing hog farm.. bout 200 sows breading and raising feeder pigs and finshed pigs for market. outside nursery and farrowing house everything was outside, breeding was stick 2 boars in a field with 24 sows come for couple weeks and hope they all got bread.. then hoping to get the sows inside before they had their littlers.... brith suvivability was ~75% we would los 25% of brithed pigs on avg..
by 06 we had grown to 650 sow producing some 18,000 pigs for market. we move everything inside(costomer wanted leaner healther product) all the sows are AI'd and ultra sounds are done to verifie prego....
every sow is put into a crate.. given unlimit water and ample food.. this eliminated herd mentaility and "alpha sows" dominating the food and water supply. this also eliminates outside desease from getting in the herd and if one does get sick we can quickly address the sow before it spreads..
....
manure run off when outside was an open lagoon.. inside its caught ina 3' pit under the crate pumped into storage tanks that can hold a 14 months worth of manure about 5 mill gallons.. this allows us to control the manure and where is goes... plus come spring/fall we use drag lines to spread it on field accurately to reduce fertilizer cost and minimize soil compaction by multiple pass of the tactor and honey wagons... it also allows us to put those 4-5 million gallons in the ground in a matter of days vs weeks...
with everything inside our pigglet suviablilyt is 90-95%. everyone is in 75* temp controled enviorment (lesst temp stress) = healther more productive animals... we also have data cards on every sow.. know what meds she got, how much food she eats, when she was AI'd avg time for gestation, it allows us to manage things alot better and increase effeciency..
right now we just bread our last group of sows.. we are contracting with fair oaks swine that is a part of fair oaks dairy and we are swapping over to complete nuresery setup to recieve feeder pigs from them
with being affiliated with fair oaks dairy they installed live cams in the barns that they can check at any time via cell...and will eventually be tied in with fair oaks swine so the end consumer can see where the piggies go after they leave their mothers..
both my uncle and cousin(his son) are actively part of the national pork board
farm and dairy did an article on him last month i belive. heres link
http://www.farmanddairy.com/news/wildmans-bring-transparency-to-swine-industry/47086.html
by 06 we had grown to 650 sow producing some 18,000 pigs for market. we move everything inside(costomer wanted leaner healther product) all the sows are AI'd and ultra sounds are done to verifie prego....
every sow is put into a crate.. given unlimit water and ample food.. this eliminated herd mentaility and "alpha sows" dominating the food and water supply. this also eliminates outside desease from getting in the herd and if one does get sick we can quickly address the sow before it spreads..
....
manure run off when outside was an open lagoon.. inside its caught ina 3' pit under the crate pumped into storage tanks that can hold a 14 months worth of manure about 5 mill gallons.. this allows us to control the manure and where is goes... plus come spring/fall we use drag lines to spread it on field accurately to reduce fertilizer cost and minimize soil compaction by multiple pass of the tactor and honey wagons... it also allows us to put those 4-5 million gallons in the ground in a matter of days vs weeks...
with everything inside our pigglet suviablilyt is 90-95%. everyone is in 75* temp controled enviorment (lesst temp stress) = healther more productive animals... we also have data cards on every sow.. know what meds she got, how much food she eats, when she was AI'd avg time for gestation, it allows us to manage things alot better and increase effeciency..
right now we just bread our last group of sows.. we are contracting with fair oaks swine that is a part of fair oaks dairy and we are swapping over to complete nuresery setup to recieve feeder pigs from them
with being affiliated with fair oaks dairy they installed live cams in the barns that they can check at any time via cell...and will eventually be tied in with fair oaks swine so the end consumer can see where the piggies go after they leave their mothers..
both my uncle and cousin(his son) are actively part of the national pork board
farm and dairy did an article on him last month i belive. heres link
http://www.farmanddairy.com/news/wildmans-bring-transparency-to-swine-industry/47086.html
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